VHS/Other Se7en silver retention version - criterion collection

ricster

The Fallen Zombie
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Jul 7, 2012
6,115
Great Britain
Tonight's film from Criterion collection - Se7en.

Playing the silver retention laserdisc in the HLD-X9 through the dvdo vp50 to de interlace and upscale to 1080p. Then oppo 105bd upscales to 4K UHD and 36 bit colour.

Ac-3 track demodulated by the tag MacLaren THX processor and Outputted dolby digital 5.1 48khz THX cinema mode. Then upscaled to 7.1.4. By the marantz sr7009 and sr5200

And it's one of my favourite movies.

Opening theme tune and the rain sounds superb.

this edition is superb, I will certainly not be parting with this.

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Very nice bud. Great set up to enjoy a superb film and classic edition.
 
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Very nice bud. Great set to enjoy a superb film and classic edition.
Beauty! I remember it well! I still have my LD Criterion BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA (no DVD or Blu has come anywhere close to the quality of the LD audio) and the big boxed set of Criterion CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (what a set!!). I kinda wish I still had the boxed set LDs of THE ABYSS DC, & ALIEN DC & ALIENS DC.
Those were historic releases that changed EVERYTHING with the way we consume cinema in the home.:thumbs:
BIG UPS to LAZERBLAZER Culver City, CA. (R.I.P.) woooooo!!!!
 
Seven in 4k will be awesome, hope there's no transfer issues.
I'll never understand why New Line release the Blu the way they did. The PLATINUM SERIES DVD was a great package because they copied the design of the Criterion release.
I have no idea what the hell that red abomination was on Blu ray! I got the two German steel versions:
The SIEBAN release (which apes the Criterion cover)
And the other edition that apes the release poster (with the seven sins written and crossed out)...
 
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@PunkNinja @C.C. 95

Unfortunately the superb look of the criterion laserdisc will not be created on UHD blu due to the way lab techniques have changed. The look has to be done digitally now. With the original laserdisc and vhs it was scanned at 480 lines so for th anamorphic dvd back in 2000 a new master had to be struck. And for the blu, it was again. have a read. I am quite impressed with the look of the Italian blu Ray in the pictures above.


Se7en New Line Platinum Edition (2000 Remaster)

After finishing work on ‘Fight Club’ in 2000, Fincher returned to Se7en to do a fresh anamorphic DVD transfer. Once again, he wanted to work from a freshly struck print, however he found it impossible to get sufficient density in the print blaming changing lab practices. So he opted to have the negative scanned directly, and perform color-correction in the digital domain to restore the bleach bypass look.

A 1080i scan was made using a Spirit telecine machine, and recorded to D5 digital HD videotape. I believe this negative scan is the source for all subsequent home video releases. Fincher worked with colorist Stephen Nakamura, who had done timing work on video dallies during production of Se7en.

The New Line Platinum Edition DVD was released in 2000, and was positively reviewed, and included much of the supplemental material that was included in the Criterion Laserdisc set.

Overall the transfer is a little more ‘pushed’ looking than the earlier transfer, with a green tint throughout. It doesn’t look bad, but starts to look more like a 2000 film, with the use of Davinci ‘power windows’ allow manipulation of the image that wouldn’t have been possible. Secondary color corrections to the climax are apparent.

A film only DVD edition of the transfer was released 2004.

The Dutch Blu-ray released in 2009 appears to have used this transfer, as does the iTunes HD version.

HD Editions (2009 to present)

The following is largely speculation:

A large number of New Line titles have been released in Canada by Alliance (and vice versa), this leads me to believe that there was a standard licensing deal in place between the two. Licensing deals of this nature would typically be time bounded (say 10 years), and would include clauses such that the licensor would be obliged to provide the ‘best’ master materials reasonable available. After spending considerable money on New Line, Warner would have looked at the catalogue to determine how it could start monetizing it. Since Alliance licensed Se7en sometime in 2000 to release the Canadian version of the New Line Platinum edition, it seems probable that this license was due to expire in 2010.

Alliance wanting one last bite of the cherry decided to release Se7en on Blu-ray in 2009, and asked Warner for a HD transfer of Se7en. Warner recognized that providing them with a good HD 1080p copy of the director supervised 2000 transfer would diminish the value of the property when they came to renegotiate in 2010; so Warner provided them with the ‘Best’ transfer available, a copy of the unmatted, 1080i version. Alliance simply shrugged and released it.

As previously noted, the iTunes version and the Dutch Blu-ray also use the 2000 master, but are matted.

Another, possibly related transfer was used for the Italian 2009 Blu-ray, however this is appropriately matted, and appears to have very little in the way of color-correction applied. Looking at the bonus materials from the 2000 DVD, which include a demonstration of the Davinci color corrector in action, the Italian Blu-ray looks pretty close to the uncorrected master they are working from. Interestingly the Italian inter-titles appear to have been upscaled from an earlier DVD master.

Se7en Warner Blu-ray (2010)

Reading between the lines it appears that the most recent Blu-ray edition is the 2000 Datacine transfer with a new modern look color-correction. I’m not clear who was involved in the transfer, and if it was director approved or not.

I’m going to say this simply: It looks good, but it doesn’t look like a 1995 movie. Very strong secondary color corrections are pretty obviously applied, and the color begins to shift towards Orange and Teal. A lack of grain also implies the use of DVNR, though it’s hard to catch-it out.
 
@PunkNinja @C.C. 95

Unfortunately the superb look of the criterion laserdisc will not be created on UHD blu due to the way lab techniques have changed. The look has to be done digitally now. With the original laserdisc and vhs it was scanned at 480 lines so for th anamorphic dvd back in 2000 a new master had to be struck. And for the blu, it was again. have a read. I am quite impressed with the look of the Italian blu Ray in the pictures above.


Se7en New Line Platinum Edition (2000 Remaster)

After finishing work on ‘Fight Club’ in 2000, Fincher returned to Se7en to do a fresh anamorphic DVD transfer. Once again, he wanted to work from a freshly struck print, however he found it impossible to get sufficient density in the print blaming changing lab practices. So he opted to have the negative scanned directly, and perform color-correction in the digital domain to restore the bleach bypass look.

A 1080i scan was made using a Spirit telecine machine, and recorded to D5 digital HD videotape. I believe this negative scan is the source for all subsequent home video releases. Fincher worked with colorist Stephen Nakamura, who had done timing work on video dallies during production of Se7en.

The New Line Platinum Edition DVD was released in 2000, and was positively reviewed, and included much of the supplemental material that was included in the Criterion Laserdisc set.

Overall the transfer is a little more ‘pushed’ looking than the earlier transfer, with a green tint throughout. It doesn’t look bad, but starts to look more like a 2000 film, with the use of Davinci ‘power windows’ allow manipulation of the image that wouldn’t have been possible. Secondary color corrections to the climax are apparent.

A film only DVD edition of the transfer was released 2004.

The Dutch Blu-ray released in 2009 appears to have used this transfer, as does the iTunes HD version.

HD Editions (2009 to present)

The following is largely speculation:

A large number of New Line titles have been released in Canada by Alliance (and vice versa), this leads me to believe that there was a standard licensing deal in place between the two. Licensing deals of this nature would typically be time bounded (say 10 years), and would include clauses such that the licensor would be obliged to provide the ‘best’ master materials reasonable available. After spending considerable money on New Line, Warner would have looked at the catalogue to determine how it could start monetizing it. Since Alliance licensed Se7en sometime in 2000 to release the Canadian version of the New Line Platinum edition, it seems probable that this license was due to expire in 2010.

Alliance wanting one last bite of the cherry decided to release Se7en on Blu-ray in 2009, and asked Warner for a HD transfer of Se7en. Warner recognized that providing them with a good HD 1080p copy of the director supervised 2000 transfer would diminish the value of the property when they came to renegotiate in 2010; so Warner provided them with the ‘Best’ transfer available, a copy of the unmatted, 1080i version. Alliance simply shrugged and released it.

As previously noted, the iTunes version and the Dutch Blu-ray also use the 2000 master, but are matted.

Another, possibly related transfer was used for the Italian 2009 Blu-ray, however this is appropriately matted, and appears to have very little in the way of color-correction applied. Looking at the bonus materials from the 2000 DVD, which include a demonstration of the Davinci color corrector in action, the Italian Blu-ray looks pretty close to the uncorrected master they are working from. Interestingly the Italian inter-titles appear to have been upscaled from an earlier DVD master.

Se7en Warner Blu-ray (2010)

Reading between the lines it appears that the most recent Blu-ray edition is the 2000 Datacine transfer with a new modern look color-correction. I’m not clear who was involved in the transfer, and if it was director approved or not.

I’m going to say this simply: It looks good, but it doesn’t look like a 1995 movie. Very strong secondary color corrections are pretty obviously applied, and the color begins to shift towards Orange and Teal. A lack of grain also implies the use of DVNR, though it’s hard to catch-it out.
Great info! Thanks Ric!
Rule of thumb- Never get anything Alliance does. They don't know their ass from their elbow.
Their mistakes are myriad. Bottom of the barrel. I think they are just has beens from their cable division and probably don't even know a hard matte from a soft matte, and the difference between a soft matte super 35 and anamorphic. (Sorry- they piss me off. They actually released blu rays from 1080i source material that was only meant to air on cable TV and push-in on hard mattes). Idiots.
 
Let's a have a "what's in the box!" Special limited edition 4K UHD blu ray.

If this was fox, we would have had a Tracy head to go with alien, predator, I robot, plate of the apes and Caesar warrior and primate collections.
 
@PunkNinja yes. Especially when they screwed up the blu Ray trying to recreate the original silver retention look of the laserdisc and vhs versions.

The 1997 DVD also has the silver retention look.

http://notonbluray.com/blog/the-case-of-se7en/
"When it came time to release the film on home video, David Fincher chose to re-create the look of the CCE process. A low-contrast print was created to be telecine’d, and the movie was re-graded by David Fincher scene by scene, and a 480i master was produced. This master was shared by the New Line releases (AC-3 Laserdisc, DTS Laserdisc, VHS, ‘flipper’ DVD) and a Criterion Collection CAV Laserdisc set which included a number of (then) exclusive special features. Various other sources claim that the Criterion transfer is different, upon inspection, this is not the case."

"The Criterion laserdisc doesn’t have the white line, but instead doesn’t reach that far to the left or right (at least on my displays). Quality is about par for a CAV laserdisc, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the DVD."

"So which version should you watch ? Well, that depends. In my opinion the two best options are either the 1997 New Line DVD, or the Dutch Blu-ray. Why ?
The 1997 New Line DVD is the best way to see something like a CCE print, which is how it would have looked in the Cinema in 1995. It also features the original, a mostly un-tampered-with cinema soundtrack."