PS4 The Last of Us Part II (2020)

CollectorEmtee

NolanNinja
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im actually pretty sad that it ended... the characters were all so likeable.. hope theres a next part
Yeah, sad to leave those characters....but I will definitely play it again few times....now on PS4 and then when PS5 comes I will surely play again :) Heard its pretty good to revisit the story after you finished it the first time... No surprises, but surely a lot of moments to re-live again...more attention to details....
 
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Paperinukke

Studio Ghibli Ninja
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Apr 13, 2014
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Some extra thoughts about the game (spoilers about the first game mostly) and the backlash: it's most definitely the so-called The Last Jedi effect. Do people process complex stories and characters at all, or do they simply consume? People don't want their "heroes" to change, or develop at all it seems, they just want to experience the same rush, the same game all over again. When Ellie changes, when Luke has changed OVER FREAKING DECADES, the fans go NUTS. What did they expect from the sequel - another sweet Joel & Ellie adventure across the country?

That's all gone, buried and finished. You clearly didn't complete the first game if you didn't see where the next one (if ever made) would go thematically. All lights were out. In the first part Joel claimed to Tess that they're survivors instead of bad guys, doing what it takes to get by... but in the end, he literally became a monster that destroyed humanity's perhaps only hope. Absolutely, completely, totally unforgivable. Did everyone forget that? We can still understand his reasons and we can feel for him, yes, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to accept his choices. Some people have some real difficulties with this it seems - the same with Breaking Bad, Heisenberg and Skyler being "a b*tch". You're not meant to be cheering for every protagonist. Mind-blowing, I know. After the first game was finished, anything coming for Joel was well-deserved. He was never a hero, but now he turned into something so much worse.

And in the sequel, Ellie struggles with these exact same things. How to forgive someone you love after they've done something unforgivable? Will you still fight for them, do they deserve justice? The characters aren't perfect, they're flawed human beings thrown in horrendous situations, trying to do the best they can. Do you think that a traumatised teenager whose already been through hell and more can only remain as your quirky and cute Ellie? We saw the road of Joel... and after you start plaiying the second part, it's clear that Ellie is dangerously following the same cursed path of no return. And she NEVER, EVER does something as terrible as Joel does, despite all the sh*t that goes down. Yet some claim Ellie to be "unlikable", while Joel remains as the same ol' jolly Joel. Go figure. Everything about the game is conflicting, nothing is simple, the weight of death feels so much heavier. It's not all black and white - think about what the game is showing you, don't just consume it. No matter how much you hate someone you used to love... you can't just stop loving them. That's how Ellie feels about Joel here, and that's how I think the player is supposed to feel about him as well. Conflicting emotions. It's a haunting, atrocious, merciless world... filled with glimpses and moments of bliss and beauty. It's brilliant.
 
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hatredhorror

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Feb 26, 2013
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Spoiler (mostly for TLoU 1):

*imo* he neither became a monster nor did he destroy humanitys only hope... and i dont think that naughtysoft wanted us to believe that.. imo it was intended as a moral dilemma with no clearly right answer

in the notes lying around in the firefly base of the first game, it was stated that before Ellie, they have already *killed* approx. 20 immune persons trying to find a cure/vaccine or rather trying to safe their own ass... and they didnt finding anything

now Joels choice was to either

let them murder a 13-year old Ellie to have a *remote* chance to save a mankind, which has impressively shown that it doesnt deserve saving (as most people shown their true monstrous face in the course of the pandemic)

or

save a (fairly) innocent child which has proven it is definitely better than most of mankind.. and i mean he cared for her like he cared for his own child..


abby had a totally different, probably equally valid view and therefore considered him as a monster... but imo only if she didnt know about the other victims of this research, which might have been the case.. the doctor however was way to easily willing to make that "sacrifices", which really werent his own sacrifices... thats one part of the story that i didnt really like.. in the sequel they completely ignored the other futile sacrifices that were made
 
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Paperinukke

Studio Ghibli Ninja
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Apr 13, 2014
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spoilers continue duh

The immune person part isn't right, though? About the recording:"It states that Ellie's immunity is an anomaly that has never been seen before and that the Fireflies have experimented on other infected subjects, albeit ones with fungal growth that would cause aggression and elevated immune responses", so there were indeed sacrifices, but Ellie was completely special to them. The whole "other immune people were there" thing is just Joel's lie.

C'mon, there will always be people worth of saving or the world might as well end right there. Even though Ellie didn't exactly have a choice to begin with cos the Fireflies didn't tell anything, Joel still took that away from her... and clearly she would have wanted to at least grasp that hope. Of course it's a hard choice but the point is that Joel made the selfish choice, as did the Fireflies in charge though, both failing to give Ellie the choice she deserved to have (which still naturally wouldn't be fair for a teenage girl). And I understand your "anti-monster" thoughts, but when you play through that last sequence, murdering everyone (depends tho I guess)... I sure always feel like a monster.

Clearly Joel did what he thought he had to, but he still even lied to Ellie... for the greater good? Of course not. But, like I said, normal people who've been through hell... can we expect them to be perfectly reasonable and make the right calls? No one can, not even in our "real world". It's easy to judge from the perspective of an outsider, who knows what we would really do in that situation, with all those years of survival behind us. I mean, how is he even sane at all at that point... 20 years, jesus. I probably wouldn't be, and that makes his choices a lot easier to digest. Joel couldn't have gone any further without her, to lose another daughter, so he sacrificed EVERYTHING for Ellie - even his own relationship with her (and life) in the end. To lose her would have been the same as losing his own life. And as we see in the beginning during the driving scene, Joel was always all about himself and his family's safety since the start of the outbreak. All that, once again, very conflicting emotions and that's exactly what make the game(s) so great.

This feels like a debate we should have had 7 years ago though lmao, as it's mostly about the first game.
 
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hatredhorror

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ok maybe i remember the whole immunity thing wrong, but still.... iirc it was still merely a theoretical chance to find a cure...

the whole „for the greater good“ argumentation in 99,9% of all cases translates to „i want to help myself and by helping myself, i cant help but help everyone else too, so i claim that i do it for the greater good“... they tried to portray the doctor as a good person by helping that zebra, but one second later he almost without hesitation, without any empathy and without thorough consideration of the overall options, wanted to kill ellie despite even having a daughter by himself.... that made him seem like a massive asshole, at least to me... who is he anyway to decide who gets to live and who gets to die and what is for the greater benefit? feel free to sacrifice yourself for the greater good, but sacrificing someone else is just wrong imo.. and sacrificing the innocent for the evil assholes running around in this world is even twice as wrong

it all comes down to that they tried to trick and murder a 13 year old girl for the small chance to save their own ass.. joel had to save her and pretty much had no other choice in this situation other than to shoot himself out as the doctor tried to stop him

and joels action was far less selfish than the one of the fireflys imo... joel literally risked everything to save the one he loves (and not himself) and knew that his actions would have consequences to the point he would loose her (and everything else) anyways because she wouldnt understand why he did it... the doctor just wanted to kill her to save himself and his daughter... he sacrificed absolutely nothing and didnt care about what he was doing to that teenage girl and her father at all.. he almost seemed like a psychopath in that situation
 
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Noodles

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Please remember to use spoiler tags when discussing plot details etc. Some members have only just got around to checking out TLOU1, and there's also a good few still working their way through TLOU2.
 
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