Anybody else a college football fan? All this expansion talk is crazy! I'm not sure any of this will actually go down but I guess there is some substance to some of these rumors.
College Football Conference Expansion
- Thread starter thunda123
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from what i understand is the majority of rumors going around is that the big 12 will be split up amongst the pac 10, SEC and big 10.
my guess is that if this happens the big name teams (nebraska, texas, oklahoma) will get snatched up quickly, with teams like colorado, kansas and missouri to follow. the rest of the teams will scramble to try and get into a major conference and may have to settle on smaller conferences if they can't get in. any of iowa st, kansas st, t-tech, a&m, okst, and baylor might be on the outside looking in once the dust settles.
that or the pac-10 will just 6 teams they want and then the other 6 will either go to big10, acc, sec, or smaller conferences. i think the b10 is mostly interested in texas, with mizzou and maybe nebraska as well. problem with getting texas is that they have strong instate ties with a&m and tech, as well as needing to keep the rivalry with oklahoma. theres no way they can have all 3 of those teams out of conference; whichever conference is going to land texas will at LEAST have to take one of a&m or tech, if not both. i know the pac 10 said they will offer contracts to all 3 texas schools plus oklahoma, okst and one other i think.
as much as i would love to see texas part of the b10 (to me the program just fits in the b10), i think they will go to the pac 10, making eastern and western divisions adding the arizona schools to the eastern. it makes much more sense geographically, as the current b12 teams would only really be traveling as far as they do now, and if it goes down as blueprinted, texas would get oklahoma, tech and a&m all within their division.
then the b10, sec, and acc would have to pick up scraps. big10 could go after nebraska and mizzou, then maybe try to sign ND (not gonna happen) and possibly another eastern school. but really, its just way too confusing with way too many possibilities. its kind of exciting, because in maybe as little as a month or less the college competitive scene could look completely different, with 4 mega conferences of 16-18 teams each.
i heard the pac10 might try and get utah as well.
that or the pac-10 will just 6 teams they want and then the other 6 will either go to big10, acc, sec, or smaller conferences. i think the b10 is mostly interested in texas, with mizzou and maybe nebraska as well. problem with getting texas is that they have strong instate ties with a&m and tech, as well as needing to keep the rivalry with oklahoma. theres no way they can have all 3 of those teams out of conference; whichever conference is going to land texas will at LEAST have to take one of a&m or tech, if not both. i know the pac 10 said they will offer contracts to all 3 texas schools plus oklahoma, okst and one other i think.
as much as i would love to see texas part of the b10 (to me the program just fits in the b10), i think they will go to the pac 10, making eastern and western divisions adding the arizona schools to the eastern. it makes much more sense geographically, as the current b12 teams would only really be traveling as far as they do now, and if it goes down as blueprinted, texas would get oklahoma, tech and a&m all within their division.
then the b10, sec, and acc would have to pick up scraps. big10 could go after nebraska and mizzou, then maybe try to sign ND (not gonna happen) and possibly another eastern school. but really, its just way too confusing with way too many possibilities. its kind of exciting, because in maybe as little as a month or less the college competitive scene could look completely different, with 4 mega conferences of 16-18 teams each.
i heard the pac10 might try and get utah as well.
No way Texas goes to the Big 10. They would have to travel so long for each game. They will go Pac 10 or SEC, because if they got PAC 10, the same teams they play in the Big 12 south now would join them and they would only have to go to arizona once, and to the west coast once.
As for why KSU and KU are sitting on the outside makes no sense. KSU has the greatest football turnaround ever. They have a top 5 basketball team and a top 20 baseball team. KU i can see why, but since they are always #1 in basketball I don't know why they wouldn't want to be included.
As for why KSU and KU are sitting on the outside makes no sense. KSU has the greatest football turnaround ever. They have a top 5 basketball team and a top 20 baseball team. KU i can see why, but since they are always #1 in basketball I don't know why they wouldn't want to be included.
Being that I'm a huge big ten fan and my roommate at school is a huge big east fan I was pumped when I found out about the big ten exploring expansion in december or january. It looks as if one of two major conferences is going to get completely destroyed. Either the current rumors of The big ten snatching up Nebraska and Mizzou and the Pac 10 adding roughly 5 to 6 of the other teams including Texas and Texas A&M will happen which would render the Big 12 completely defunct, Or, my personal favorite scenario, The Big Ten Pursues 2 teams out of the Big east to capture the New York market which would mean either Rutgers or Syracuse. They would then Add A New York Team, Capture the rest of the mizzou market and bring the braggin rights challenge in conference, and add nebraska which has a very storied football history. In the Case the Big ten scoops up 2 or more Big East teams then there is an extremely high probability that the ACC and SEC would also look to raid the conference taking away close to all of the teams.
As for the talk of Texas to the Big ten, Texas is the biggest name brand in collegiate sports by a mile. They produce more money than any other single school. The idea behind them going to the big ten would be a completely financial move. If I remember correctly when there was expansion talk going on in the early 2000s texas was somewhat disrespected by the big 12, combine this with the fact that the big ten pays out more money to every school in the conference every year than any other conference in the nation and you have the reasoning behind the texas move to the big 10. Actually the majoring reasoning for any school wanting to join the conference is the amount of money the conference generates, and since it pays out the money at a flat rate then you can be the worst team in the conference and still get as much as the best team. And if the Big ten did this then they would be able to split the conference into east and west and add a championship weekend.
My Dream scenario for teams moving into the Big 10- Texas, Syracuse, Mizzou, UConn
What will happen if anything- Mizzou, Nebraska, and either Pitt/Maryland/Rutgers
---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------
And the travel expenses would not be as big of a deal as it seems since texas has such a large fan base and would draw fans anywhere they play throughout the midwest.
As for the talk of Texas to the Big ten, Texas is the biggest name brand in collegiate sports by a mile. They produce more money than any other single school. The idea behind them going to the big ten would be a completely financial move. If I remember correctly when there was expansion talk going on in the early 2000s texas was somewhat disrespected by the big 12, combine this with the fact that the big ten pays out more money to every school in the conference every year than any other conference in the nation and you have the reasoning behind the texas move to the big 10. Actually the majoring reasoning for any school wanting to join the conference is the amount of money the conference generates, and since it pays out the money at a flat rate then you can be the worst team in the conference and still get as much as the best team. And if the Big ten did this then they would be able to split the conference into east and west and add a championship weekend.
My Dream scenario for teams moving into the Big 10- Texas, Syracuse, Mizzou, UConn
What will happen if anything- Mizzou, Nebraska, and either Pitt/Maryland/Rutgers
---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------
And the travel expenses would not be as big of a deal as it seems since texas has such a large fan base and would draw fans anywhere they play throughout the midwest.
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You better hope that Nebraska ends up committing to the Big12 by their deadline. Otherwise the Big12 could be in a huge mess. And teams like KSU, KU, Iowa State, Baylor (or possibly Colorado if the Texas politicians require that you only get Texas if Baylor is brought along also) will be very nervous as to what will happen with them. Rumor has it that if Nebraska doesn't sign on the dotted line to remain with the Big12 that texas will take the other 5 teams and head to the Pac10. Nebraska hates Texas. Most schools in the big 12 hate Texas due to them receiving more money than any other Big12 team due to their uneven revenue structure.
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Penn?
Yep. If the Big 12 were to lose texas and either Oklahoma, Nebraska, or Kansas then that conference is going to crumble.
I think Kansas is actually kind of a dark horse in all of this. One of the best basketball programs in the nation and a consistently decent football program. I don't see why there aren't more rumors involving them.
---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------
Meant Pitt. My Mistake. It would make sense geographically, and it would bring in a school that is decent at basketball and football.
I think Kansas is actually kind of a dark horse in all of this. One of the best basketball programs in the nation and a consistently decent football program. I don't see why there aren't more rumors involving them.
---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------
Meant Pitt. My Mistake. It would make sense geographically, and it would bring in a school that is decent at basketball and football.
what i meant by sitting on the outside looking in is that as of right now there are no rumored deals involved either ksu, kstate, or iowa st. even baylor has been mentioned in offer deals that ive read since they are a texas school and theres a lot of pride down there to keep texas schools together, so basically U-texas would be dragging them along as a substitute for CU in a p10 deal. ta&m have strong ties with the SEC and theres rumors of them ending up in that conference. regardless of kstate's athletic achievements, they don't carry the draw of schools like texas, oklahoma, and even nebraska which is why if things go down they might have to scramble to ensure themselves a spot in a major conference.
i agree its not likely that texas ends up in the b10, but its no where near impossible. texas has really strong ties with many b10 teams, and having just recently finishing a very successful home-and-home series with OSU ties are stronger than ever. gordon gee (OSU's AD) just recently contact the texas AD with a very personal and long letter talking about joining the b10, and there is interest from texas to joining the conference. one of the major draws is the b10's own already established television network which pays out tv contracts to all b10 schools from the money they generate from premium channel charges. this is what the p10 is trying to set up, but its already implemented and successful in b10 country. bringing in teams like texas, nebraska, and missouri would only boost this revenue. like i said, the p10 would establish this themselves if they landed all 6 of the teams i mentioned from the b12, but its a slight advantage for the b10 since they already have it running with 10 teams.
nonetheless, it still probably makes more sense for texas to go to the p10 with the 6 team deal that they are proposing. i dont know if the b10 is willing to expand to 16 teams like the p10 is, and honestly i dont know if i want them to. but if thats what it takes to land a team like texas it might be worth it.
if the b10 offered the same deal the p10 is to texas, id say that texas would have a very strong reason to join the b10. traveling is probably a moot issue for a team like texas.
Being that I'm a huge big ten fan and my roommate at school is a huge big east fan I was pumped when I found out about the big ten exploring expansion in december or january. It looks as if one of two major conferences is going to get completely destroyed. Either the current rumors of The big ten snatching up Nebraska and Mizzou and the Pac 10 adding roughly 5 to 6 of the other teams including Texas and Texas A&M will happen which would render the Big 12 completely defunct, Or, my personal favorite scenario, The Big Ten Pursues 2 teams out of the Big east to capture the New York market which would mean either Rutgers or Syracuse. They would then Add A New York Team, Capture the rest of the mizzou market and bring the braggin rights challenge in conference, and add nebraska which has a very storied football history. In the Case the Big ten scoops up 2 or more Big East teams then there is an extremely high probability that the ACC and SEC would also look to raid the conference taking away close to all of the teams.
As for the talk of Texas to the Big ten, Texas is the biggest name brand in collegiate sports by a mile. They produce more money than any other single school. The idea behind them going to the big ten would be a completely financial move. If I remember correctly when there was expansion talk going on in the early 2000s texas was somewhat disrespected by the big 12, combine this with the fact that the big ten pays out more money to every school in the conference every year than any other conference in the nation and you have the reasoning behind the texas move to the big 10. Actually the majoring reasoning for any school wanting to join the conference is the amount of money the conference generates, and since it pays out the money at a flat rate then you can be the worst team in the conference and still get as much as the best team. And if the Big ten did this then they would be able to split the conference into east and west and add a championship weekend.
actually, notre dame generates the most revenue, almost 100 million. texas is a distant second in the mid 80's with michigan, georgia, florida and osu close behind. at least those were the numbers a few years ago. either way, texas is still a huuuuuuge name for any conference to bring in. imagine if the b10 could land both texas AND ND(not gonna happen IMO)
My Dream scenario for teams moving into the Big 10- Texas, Syracuse, Mizzou, UConn
What will happen if anything- Mizzou, Nebraska, and either Penn/Maryland/Rutgers
---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------
And the travel expenses would not be as big of a deal as it seems since texas has such a large fan base and would draw fans anywhere they play throughout the midwest.
honestly, i think the most likely scenario is that the b12 will still be the b12 next year, and they will set up some sort of out of conference priority schedule with the p10 to see how that goes. its more likely that a major merger would occur down the line some year, but i think its just too soon too fast for it to happen now. that and the b12 put a deadline on negotiations for some teams to declare whether or not they are staying. and texas, from what ive read, would rather just keep the b12 as it is.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/mo...l-teams-business-sports-college-football.html
Forbes puts the value of the texas longhorn brand at roughly 119 Million as of 2009. 11 million more than ND.
And from what I just read in an article that got put out this morning a lot of it depends on what nebraska decides before their deadline. Because Apparently they are still at odds with Texas and the B12 could withstand Mizzou, who has pretty much stated they'd do anything to get to the B10, leaving but not Mizzou and Nebraska leaving. The balls in nebraska's court now.
Forbes puts the value of the texas longhorn brand at roughly 119 Million as of 2009. 11 million more than ND.
And from what I just read in an article that got put out this morning a lot of it depends on what nebraska decides before their deadline. Because Apparently they are still at odds with Texas and the B12 could withstand Mizzou, who has pretty much stated they'd do anything to get to the B10, leaving but not Mizzou and Nebraska leaving. The balls in nebraska's court now.
yup, ive also been reading that if the b12 splits, nebraska and texas will try to avoid each other. which is another reason why, if this split happens, i think texas will end up in the p10 and nebraska in the b10.
the p10 needs it too, in terms of revenue they have nothing over their. SC is the only team bringing in the dough and its still no where near the big teams from the b12, sec, and b10 bring in.
yuck! i want no part of pitt, cincy or wvu. give me maryland over any of them any day. other than that one year where wvu beat oklahoma (who always chokes in the bcs game), these teams prove time and time again to be over hyped since they play in inferior conferences. if pitt joined the b10 they wouldn't even measure up to northwestern who at least once in awhile is a top 4 team in the b10. on the other hand, minnesota would love having pitt in the conference
also i heard psu is lobbying for not choosing pitt as it would interfere with their instate recruiting
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thats what i get for using a source 4 years old i guess 
Ahh look at Basketball sir. Pitt hasn't missed the tourney since 2001 I believe. They have been extremely consistent this decade. I would rather get Pitt basketball and have to take on Pitt football then get Maryland Basketball and have to take on maryland football.
Plus you add in an instate/in conference rivalry with Penn State and create a traveling partner with Penn State.
Plus you add in an instate/in conference rivalry with Penn State and create a traveling partner with Penn State.
true. but maryland basketball in terms of money generating is just as good as pitt if not better, and except for recently they have a history of being pretty good. i know pitt would bring up the "academic" level of the b10, but people still aren't happy with northwestern being in the b10 and a major impetus for that was academics as well.
id still take maryland over pitt as they would be relevant in football and basketball, while not interfering with psu's recruiting and expanding the market to another state/area.
Consistently decent football program. KU?
KU has 12 bowl appearances in their lifetime.... With 3 in a big bowl... 2 before the 1970's. The last 40 years have been horrible for KU.
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assuming the b10 lands nebraska and mizzou, the two schools most likely to join, what does our conference look like then regarding divisions?
you have to keep osu and um together due to the rivalry, and then you also have to keep msu and um together due to their rivalry. you could set up a "west" and "east" to have it look like this:
West teams
Nebraska, Mizzou, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East teams
Indiana, Purdue, OSU, Michigan, MSU, PSU
it would be relatively even, although the east would be pretty loaded as psu and osu are almost always fighting for the title (michigan use to but now they suck), but wisky, iowa and nebraska aren't exactly slouches either as they would have a good chance of being one of the top 3 teams any year.
if you added a team to the "east" it couldn't be a powerhouse team, it would have to be a team on the level of a maryland or wvu. if somehow the b10 got ND you could add them to the west in exchange for illinois and that would make things pretty darn even all around.
ahhhh too many possibilities!!!
you have to keep osu and um together due to the rivalry, and then you also have to keep msu and um together due to their rivalry. you could set up a "west" and "east" to have it look like this:
West teams
Nebraska, Mizzou, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East teams
Indiana, Purdue, OSU, Michigan, MSU, PSU
it would be relatively even, although the east would be pretty loaded as psu and osu are almost always fighting for the title (michigan use to but now they suck
), but wisky, iowa and nebraska aren't exactly slouches either as they would have a good chance of being one of the top 3 teams any year.if you added a team to the "east" it couldn't be a powerhouse team, it would have to be a team on the level of a maryland or wvu. if somehow the b10 got ND you could add them to the west in exchange for illinois and that would make things pretty darn even all around.
ahhhh too many possibilities!!!
haha, i just looked at the b12 list of schools by endowments, this is the results via wikipedia:
no wonder other schools are pissed at texas, almost 3 times that of the tam and 16 times that of 3rd place oklahoma
yah, KU has been anything but consistently good. 2007 was their shining glory as of late, but they are consistently a mid to bottom tier b12 team, and they are playing in the weaker north division too. everybody wants kansas because they are a top 3 team for basketball, but nobody wants them for football
ADDITION:
heres a list of the past 15 years or so of b12 football
School↓ '96↓ '97↓ '98↓ '99↓ '00↓ '01↓ '02↓ '03↓ '04↓ '05↓ '06↓ '07↓ '08↓ '09↓
Baylor 11 11 12 12 12 12 11 11 12 10 10 12 10 12
Colorado 2 7 6 5 8 1 1 9 5 4 11 8 8 10
Iowa State 12 12 11 10 5 6 7 12 6 5 12 11 12 9
Kansas 10 8 10 8 9 11 12 8 10 8 9 3 7 11
Kansas State 3 2 1 2 4 8 4 2 11 11 7 9 9 7
Missouri 7 5 5 11 10 9 10 6 9 7 5 2 5 6
Nebraska 1 1 4 1 3 3 8 4 8 6 3 10 6 2
Oklahoma 8 10 9 6 1 4 2 1 1 3 1 1 1 5
Oklahoma St 9 4 8 7 11 10 6 5 7 12 8 7 4 3
Texas 4 9 3 3 2 2 3 3 2 1 2 4 3 1
Texas A&M 6 3 2 4 6 5 9 10 4 9 4 6 11 8
Texas Tech 5 6 7 6 7 7 5 7 3 2 6 5 2 4
kansas' best finish was 3rd. the only teams worse than that are iowa state and baylor.
no wonder other schools are pissed at texas, almost 3 times that of the tam and 16 times that of 3rd place oklahoma Consistently decent football program. KU?
KU has 12 bowl appearances in their lifetime.... With 3 in a big bowl... 2 before the 1970's. The last 40 years have been horrible for KU.
yah, KU has been anything but consistently good. 2007 was their shining glory as of late, but they are consistently a mid to bottom tier b12 team, and they are playing in the weaker north division too. everybody wants kansas because they are a top 3 team for basketball, but nobody wants them for football
ADDITION:
heres a list of the past 15 years or so of b12 football
School↓ '96↓ '97↓ '98↓ '99↓ '00↓ '01↓ '02↓ '03↓ '04↓ '05↓ '06↓ '07↓ '08↓ '09↓
Baylor 11 11 12 12 12 12 11 11 12 10 10 12 10 12
Colorado 2 7 6 5 8 1 1 9 5 4 11 8 8 10
Iowa State 12 12 11 10 5 6 7 12 6 5 12 11 12 9
Kansas 10 8 10 8 9 11 12 8 10 8 9 3 7 11
Kansas State 3 2 1 2 4 8 4 2 11 11 7 9 9 7
Missouri 7 5 5 11 10 9 10 6 9 7 5 2 5 6
Nebraska 1 1 4 1 3 3 8 4 8 6 3 10 6 2
Oklahoma 8 10 9 6 1 4 2 1 1 3 1 1 1 5
Oklahoma St 9 4 8 7 11 10 6 5 7 12 8 7 4 3
Texas 4 9 3 3 2 2 3 3 2 1 2 4 3 1
Texas A&M 6 3 2 4 6 5 9 10 4 9 4 6 11 8
Texas Tech 5 6 7 6 7 7 5 7 3 2 6 5 2 4
kansas' best finish was 3rd. the only teams worse than that are iowa state and baylor.
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I would want KSU more than KU.
1. Better academic school. They have the most Rhode Scholars of any Public Univeristy.
2. Decent Football team, greatest turnaround in Football history, been off for 3 years but on their way back.
3. Top 5 basketball team. Frank Martin has brought back KSU Basketball.
4. Top 20 Baseball team. Have made the World Series two years in a row.
The reason Texas gets so much money, is because they are all homegrown talent and are in the finals for almost every sport they play.
1. Better academic school. They have the most Rhode Scholars of any Public Univeristy.
2. Decent Football team, greatest turnaround in Football history, been off for 3 years but on their way back.
3. Top 5 basketball team. Frank Martin has brought back KSU Basketball.
4. Top 20 Baseball team. Have made the World Series two years in a row.
The reason Texas gets so much money, is because they are all homegrown talent and are in the finals for almost every sport they play.
disagree. KU is actually a better academic school overall according to us news rankings. while kstate's bball team was great this year, they are no where near the level of kansas. other than being runner up in this years b12 tourney, they havent made a tourney final in 13 years, while kansas has practically been in it every year and won it about half the time. kstate's football team was decent in the late 90's, but the past 10 years they have only been a little better than kansas, minus 2007.
i have no idea about other sports, but lets get real. the only two sports that matter in the conversation we are talking about is football and basketball. those two sports alone pretty much keep all the other sports teams running at almost every school in the nation.
bottom line: if i had the choice between kansas and kstate, i choose kansas every day. bringing in one of the top 5 basketball teams in the country is more than enough for me.
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Those rankings are based on where the school is located, sports, etc.
KSU has a top 10 engineering program. KU is top 30. KSU has more Rhode Scholars than any other Public University in the USA. KSU has a higher average on their ACT. KSU has a greater graduation rate and more graduates get jobs, etc.
KU is ranked higher because their city is better, the campus is prettier since it is all spread out. Its 45 mins away from Kansas City. They have a top 5 basketball program every year. KSU is the middle of nowhere, it is very close knit, small town feel.
As for picking KU because of basketball. I laugh. Yes they have a top 5 basketball team every year, but they have won 3 NC's. They have 1 NC in the last 40 years. They have reached the Elite 8 the same amount as Butler in the past 8 years. KU maybe always ranked, but they aren't that great of a basketball team. KU then fails in every other sport they play in. KU brings in more money than KSU because of the recent downfall of the football program and constant ESPN games of their basketball team. That is rapidly changing with the rise of KSU back to their prowess of the 80's. While KSU was going to 11 straight football bowl games, they were bringing in more money than KU. KU gets around that by how much is donated to them by boosters, and their boosters are insane. If you haven't heard KU is under investigation by the FBI and IRS and NCAA for the 2nd time in I believe 10 years because of ticket sales. Their football and basketball team are about to land some major infractions.
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