Anybody else a college football fan? All this expansion talk is crazy! I'm not sure any of this will actually go down but I guess there is some substance to some of these rumors.
College Football Conference Expansion
- Thread starter thunda123
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I've seen the question bounced around, and answered in a number of ways, but like everything else in realignment, it boils down to money.
"If the Big 12 is so Texas-centric, then why can't the Longhorns just stay, keep their old friends, add a few new ones and keep the Big 12 alive?"
That's an option for Texas. In a few hours, Nebraska's board of regents will meet, discuss realignment, and could vote to formally apply to the Big Ten. That's today's assumed outcome and one that would strip the Big 12 North of its marquee football program.
But don't expect Texas to pledge its allegiance, the Big 12 to plug that hole (and Colorado's) with Utah and/or TCU and go on as a weakened conference. The answer's not complex. There's cash to be had. And the treasure map leads straight to the Pacific.
Ten, that is. (Or 11 now, I suppose)
The last Big 12 conference revenue numbers (2007) saw Texas receive just over $10 million. That number's gone up since, but if the Big 12 is forced to go on just without Nebraska and Colorado, that number is sure to dip when the next round of TV negotiations take place for the conference in April. Which brings me back to an umbrella quote I've used a couple times from Texas A&M AD Bill Byrne.
"Remember what the job of an athletic director is," Byrne said. "We're all very mercenary. We're all out there to protect our own institutions, so everybody has their own interests in mind."
No one's quite sure what kind of TV revenue a Pac-16 might generate, but I've seen projections as high as $20 million. Whatever they end up being, it's hard to argue that the shares for teams in the Pac-16 would be lower than in a weakened Big 12. The conference's only hope would be convincing the Longhorns that isn't the case. My guess: President Bill Powers knows better.
So Texas' options become:
1) Keep the Big 12 together, maintain all rivalries, make less money than they currently collect.
2) Go to the Pac-10, maintain rivalries (except Baylor, barring an Aggie split to the SEC), or potentially double their yearly conference earnings.
Tough call, there, isn't it? But that logo is SO awesome, right? Look at it, all Roman-y and gray and stuff, right?
Any sense of loyalty died in Nebraska -- not that I blame it. I'd do the same thing in its position. And don't forget, Texas has only been associated with this group of universities for less than two decades.
And don't bother with the argument that the Longhorns' road to the national title would be more difficult. The creation of the Pac-16 would almost certainly set off other leagues to form superconferences of their own, and if that happens, you can say goodbye to undefeated seasons -- or even one-loss seasons.
Texas' recent flirtations with the Pac-10 make it obvious that second option is attractive. Staying in the Big 12 for its own gain -- but Texas' loss -- doesn't sound very mercenary, does it?
"If the Big 12 is so Texas-centric, then why can't the Longhorns just stay, keep their old friends, add a few new ones and keep the Big 12 alive?"
That's an option for Texas. In a few hours, Nebraska's board of regents will meet, discuss realignment, and could vote to formally apply to the Big Ten. That's today's assumed outcome and one that would strip the Big 12 North of its marquee football program.
But don't expect Texas to pledge its allegiance, the Big 12 to plug that hole (and Colorado's) with Utah and/or TCU and go on as a weakened conference. The answer's not complex. There's cash to be had. And the treasure map leads straight to the Pacific.
Ten, that is. (Or 11 now, I suppose)
The last Big 12 conference revenue numbers (2007) saw Texas receive just over $10 million. That number's gone up since, but if the Big 12 is forced to go on just without Nebraska and Colorado, that number is sure to dip when the next round of TV negotiations take place for the conference in April. Which brings me back to an umbrella quote I've used a couple times from Texas A&M AD Bill Byrne.
"Remember what the job of an athletic director is," Byrne said. "We're all very mercenary. We're all out there to protect our own institutions, so everybody has their own interests in mind."
No one's quite sure what kind of TV revenue a Pac-16 might generate, but I've seen projections as high as $20 million. Whatever they end up being, it's hard to argue that the shares for teams in the Pac-16 would be lower than in a weakened Big 12. The conference's only hope would be convincing the Longhorns that isn't the case. My guess: President Bill Powers knows better.
So Texas' options become:
1) Keep the Big 12 together, maintain all rivalries, make less money than they currently collect.
2) Go to the Pac-10, maintain rivalries (except Baylor, barring an Aggie split to the SEC), or potentially double their yearly conference earnings.
Tough call, there, isn't it? But that logo is SO awesome, right? Look at it, all Roman-y and gray and stuff, right?
Any sense of loyalty died in Nebraska -- not that I blame it. I'd do the same thing in its position. And don't forget, Texas has only been associated with this group of universities for less than two decades.
And don't bother with the argument that the Longhorns' road to the national title would be more difficult. The creation of the Pac-16 would almost certainly set off other leagues to form superconferences of their own, and if that happens, you can say goodbye to undefeated seasons -- or even one-loss seasons.
Texas' recent flirtations with the Pac-10 make it obvious that second option is attractive. Staying in the Big 12 for its own gain -- but Texas' loss -- doesn't sound very mercenary, does it?
Boise State is official, Nebraska held a press conference announcing they are applying to the big ten and will make it official. Texas, Tech, Oklahoma, and OSU are expected to make the jump to the Pac-10 on tuesday. And A&M has announced they would like to explore the possibilities of entering the SEC.
BTW, I donno if anybody saw the press conference with Tom Osborne, The AD from Nebraska, but he said that the big 12 is not dead yet but if these texas schools leave it then the death of the big 12 is solely on them. The old man still seems to be full of piss and vinegar.
BTW, I donno if anybody saw the press conference with Tom Osborne, The AD from Nebraska, but he said that the big 12 is not dead yet but if these texas schools leave it then the death of the big 12 is solely on them. The old man still seems to be full of piss and vinegar.
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Nebraska approved by Big Ten
LINCOLN, Neb. -- So long, Big 12. Nebraska's membership in the Big Ten Conference is official.
The Big Ten's board of presidents and chancellors unanimously welcomed Nebraska to the club on Friday, just a few hours after the school formally disclosed its interest. The move takes effect July 1, 2011.
Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman said the Big Ten offers stability "that the Big 12 simply cannot offer."
More from ESPN.com
It will take some time to get used to the Big Red in the Big Ten. But Nebraska and its new conference are a good match, Adam Rittenberg writes. Story
Nebraska is better aligned with the Big Ten academically, culturally and even in climate, ESPN.com's David Ubben writes. Story
Nebraska is the Big Ten's first addition since 1990, when Penn State joined, and it comes just six months after the league announced that it was looking at expansion.
Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said he presumed there would be a Big Ten championship football game beginning in 2011. He also said the conference would "pause" from further expansion over the next 12 to 18 months. He declined to comment on whether Notre Dame or any other school was on the league's radar.
Nebraska's departure is a potentially crippling blow to the Big 12 and the biggest move yet in an offseason overhaul that will leave college sports looking much different by this time next year.
"We've had a couple disappointing days with the departure of two valued members," Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe said during a teleconference. Beebe vowed to work to keep the 10 remaining members together but acknowledged that other Big 12 schools are mulling their options.
Perlman said he believed Nebraska is much more "aligned" with the Big Ten than the Big 12 when it comes to academics, culture and athletics.
The university issued a statement that said for more than 20 years, Nebraska has compared itself to a list of 10 peer institutions established by the regents. Five of the 10 are Big Ten members; four are former Big Eight schools that joined Nebraska in the Big 12 in 1996.
"The University of Nebraska would have new opportunities with membership in the Big Ten - and I believe the Big Ten would be a stronger conference as well," university president J.B. Milliken said.
Nebraska's move comes at the end of a crazy week in college athletics.
On Thursday, fellow Big 12 member Colorado announced it was leaving for the Pac-10. Texas and other schools in the Big 12 South -- Perlman told the regents that the Pac-10 had been in touch with many schools in that division -- could be the next to leave. Texas regents scheduled a meeting for Tuesday to discuss the Longhorns' future in the Big 12.
"One school leaving a conference does not destroy a conference," Perlman said. "Nebraska did not start this discussion. After the Big Ten announced it planned to consider expansion, we saw reports that Missouri would want to go to the Big Ten, including a statement by their governor, a member of board of curators and chancellor -- comments that weren't clearly supportive of the Big 12."
Athletic director Tom Osborne, the longtime football coach, agreed.
Scott Van Pelt
CNBC's Darren Rovell explains why the Big Ten is so attractive to schools that are looking to relocate. Rovell also discusses some of the possible financial implications for programs that change conferences.
"As we read the tea leaves and listened to the conversations, some of the schools that were urging us to stay, we found some of them had talked to not only one other conference or two but even three, and those were the same ones urging us to stay," he said.
To generations of Nebraska fans, going to the Big Ten at one time would have been unthinkable. The school's athletic tradition is built on more than a century of football games against the likes of Missouri and Kansas, dating to the days the team was known as the Bugeaters.
The Huskers, in fact, have been conference partners with Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Kansas State since 1928; with Colorado since 1948 and with Oklahoma State since 1960.
Now the Huskers are on the verge of taking their five national titles in football, three Heisman trophies and enthusiastic fans east. They will look to start building new traditions, like a border rivalry with the Iowa Hawkeyes and regular trips to Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State.
Watching a football camp at Beaver Stadium, Penn State coach Joe Paterno declined comment Friday. Paterno in the past has advocated for enlarging the Big Ten from 11 schools to 14.
"It's just the tip of the iceberg right now," Penn State receivers coach Mike McQueary said of Nebraska. "Unbelievable tradition, the things they've done in that program; academically as well."
At Iowa State, a Big 12 school rarely mentioned in realignment discussions, officials sent an open letter to boosters expressing disappointment in the moves by Colorado and Nebraska.
"But as all of the discussions about conference realignment illustrate, the future of college athletics appears to be less about academics and competitive success and more about money, as measured by television viewership and the associated revenues," the letter said.
Fatter paychecks will be coming to Nebraska, eventually. Nebraska received about $10 million from the Big 12 in 2009, half the $20 million received by Big Ten members (thanks largely to bigger television contracts and the in-house Big Ten Network). The Big Ten told Perlman that no current member would receive a reduced share of revenue from the conference because of the addition of a new member. Perlman said Nebraska has been assured it would not receive less than it did in the Big 12, however, if it joins the Big Ten.
"This is not a financial windfall," Osborne said.
Delany has said he wanted to add only members that would be considered "home runs." The Huskers' football team struggled in the early and mid 2000s but have returned to national prominence the past two seasons under coach Bo Pelini, an Ohio State alumnus.
As for the Big 12, it never was a comfortable fit for the Huskers.
When the league formed, Nebraska football was at its pinnacle, having won three national titles between 1994-97 and winning 60 of 63 games before Osborne retired as coach.
That success didn't translate to juice when it came to influencing league policies.
Nebraska and the old Big Eight members, all of whom went to the Big 12, believed they were helping out Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Baylor when the old Southwest Conference collapsed.
The perception in Nebraska was that the Big 12's balance of power was held by the South Division, particularly the University of Texas.
Nebraska from day one was against a championship game in football, for fear it could trip up a team bidding for a national title. But even issues ranging from academic admission standards to location of the league office (Dallas) chafed Nebraska.
When the league last week picked Cowboys Stadium to host the next three conference championship football games -- after hosting the 2009 and 2010 games -- Osborne complained that continual treks south are unfair to fans of the North representative.
And no one in Nebraska has forgotten the controversial outcome of last year's conference title game. It looked like the Huskers had beaten the Longhorns 12-10 when the clock ran out, but one second was put back on, allowing Texas to kick the winning field goal. Pelini yelled outside the locker room that Texas was given the extra second so it could go to the BCS championship game.
"This is not about any type of vindictiveness," Osborne said. "You don't make a decision of this size based on where you're going to play Big 12 championship games."
LINCOLN, Neb. -- So long, Big 12. Nebraska's membership in the Big Ten Conference is official.
The Big Ten's board of presidents and chancellors unanimously welcomed Nebraska to the club on Friday, just a few hours after the school formally disclosed its interest. The move takes effect July 1, 2011.
Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman said the Big Ten offers stability "that the Big 12 simply cannot offer."
More from ESPN.com
It will take some time to get used to the Big Red in the Big Ten. But Nebraska and its new conference are a good match, Adam Rittenberg writes. Story
Nebraska is better aligned with the Big Ten academically, culturally and even in climate, ESPN.com's David Ubben writes. Story
Nebraska is the Big Ten's first addition since 1990, when Penn State joined, and it comes just six months after the league announced that it was looking at expansion.
Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said he presumed there would be a Big Ten championship football game beginning in 2011. He also said the conference would "pause" from further expansion over the next 12 to 18 months. He declined to comment on whether Notre Dame or any other school was on the league's radar.
Nebraska's departure is a potentially crippling blow to the Big 12 and the biggest move yet in an offseason overhaul that will leave college sports looking much different by this time next year.
"We've had a couple disappointing days with the departure of two valued members," Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe said during a teleconference. Beebe vowed to work to keep the 10 remaining members together but acknowledged that other Big 12 schools are mulling their options.
Perlman said he believed Nebraska is much more "aligned" with the Big Ten than the Big 12 when it comes to academics, culture and athletics.
The university issued a statement that said for more than 20 years, Nebraska has compared itself to a list of 10 peer institutions established by the regents. Five of the 10 are Big Ten members; four are former Big Eight schools that joined Nebraska in the Big 12 in 1996.
"The University of Nebraska would have new opportunities with membership in the Big Ten - and I believe the Big Ten would be a stronger conference as well," university president J.B. Milliken said.
Nebraska's move comes at the end of a crazy week in college athletics.
On Thursday, fellow Big 12 member Colorado announced it was leaving for the Pac-10. Texas and other schools in the Big 12 South -- Perlman told the regents that the Pac-10 had been in touch with many schools in that division -- could be the next to leave. Texas regents scheduled a meeting for Tuesday to discuss the Longhorns' future in the Big 12.
"One school leaving a conference does not destroy a conference," Perlman said. "Nebraska did not start this discussion. After the Big Ten announced it planned to consider expansion, we saw reports that Missouri would want to go to the Big Ten, including a statement by their governor, a member of board of curators and chancellor -- comments that weren't clearly supportive of the Big 12."
Athletic director Tom Osborne, the longtime football coach, agreed.
Scott Van Pelt
CNBC's Darren Rovell explains why the Big Ten is so attractive to schools that are looking to relocate. Rovell also discusses some of the possible financial implications for programs that change conferences.
"As we read the tea leaves and listened to the conversations, some of the schools that were urging us to stay, we found some of them had talked to not only one other conference or two but even three, and those were the same ones urging us to stay," he said.
To generations of Nebraska fans, going to the Big Ten at one time would have been unthinkable. The school's athletic tradition is built on more than a century of football games against the likes of Missouri and Kansas, dating to the days the team was known as the Bugeaters.
The Huskers, in fact, have been conference partners with Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Kansas State since 1928; with Colorado since 1948 and with Oklahoma State since 1960.
Now the Huskers are on the verge of taking their five national titles in football, three Heisman trophies and enthusiastic fans east. They will look to start building new traditions, like a border rivalry with the Iowa Hawkeyes and regular trips to Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State.
Watching a football camp at Beaver Stadium, Penn State coach Joe Paterno declined comment Friday. Paterno in the past has advocated for enlarging the Big Ten from 11 schools to 14.
"It's just the tip of the iceberg right now," Penn State receivers coach Mike McQueary said of Nebraska. "Unbelievable tradition, the things they've done in that program; academically as well."
At Iowa State, a Big 12 school rarely mentioned in realignment discussions, officials sent an open letter to boosters expressing disappointment in the moves by Colorado and Nebraska.
"But as all of the discussions about conference realignment illustrate, the future of college athletics appears to be less about academics and competitive success and more about money, as measured by television viewership and the associated revenues," the letter said.
Fatter paychecks will be coming to Nebraska, eventually. Nebraska received about $10 million from the Big 12 in 2009, half the $20 million received by Big Ten members (thanks largely to bigger television contracts and the in-house Big Ten Network). The Big Ten told Perlman that no current member would receive a reduced share of revenue from the conference because of the addition of a new member. Perlman said Nebraska has been assured it would not receive less than it did in the Big 12, however, if it joins the Big Ten.
"This is not a financial windfall," Osborne said.
Delany has said he wanted to add only members that would be considered "home runs." The Huskers' football team struggled in the early and mid 2000s but have returned to national prominence the past two seasons under coach Bo Pelini, an Ohio State alumnus.
As for the Big 12, it never was a comfortable fit for the Huskers.
When the league formed, Nebraska football was at its pinnacle, having won three national titles between 1994-97 and winning 60 of 63 games before Osborne retired as coach.
That success didn't translate to juice when it came to influencing league policies.
Nebraska and the old Big Eight members, all of whom went to the Big 12, believed they were helping out Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Baylor when the old Southwest Conference collapsed.
The perception in Nebraska was that the Big 12's balance of power was held by the South Division, particularly the University of Texas.
Nebraska from day one was against a championship game in football, for fear it could trip up a team bidding for a national title. But even issues ranging from academic admission standards to location of the league office (Dallas) chafed Nebraska.
When the league last week picked Cowboys Stadium to host the next three conference championship football games -- after hosting the 2009 and 2010 games -- Osborne complained that continual treks south are unfair to fans of the North representative.
And no one in Nebraska has forgotten the controversial outcome of last year's conference title game. It looked like the Huskers had beaten the Longhorns 12-10 when the clock ran out, but one second was put back on, allowing Texas to kick the winning field goal. Pelini yelled outside the locker room that Texas was given the extra second so it could go to the BCS championship game.
"This is not about any type of vindictiveness," Osborne said. "You don't make a decision of this size based on where you're going to play Big 12 championship games."
The Mountain West Conference was a geographical misnomer from the beginning, as it launched with San Diego State among its eight original teams before adding TCU in 2005 and Boise State on Friday.
And the conference's reach doesn't appear to be stopping there.
According to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Kansas, Missouri and Kansas State are on the Mountain West's radar amid a continuing shakeup of the Big 12.
But Baylor isn't considered a candidate to join the conference, with TCU standing staunchly in its way, the Fort Worth newspaper reported, citing unnamed sources.
Big 12 blog
ESPN.com's David Ubben writes about all things Big 12 in his conference blog.
• Blog network:
College Football Nation
"The Mountain West wants to be a national player and continue to grow in that realm," MWC commissioner Craig Thompson said in a conference call with reporters Friday. "We are extremely interested in BCS automatic qualification. We are simply trying to get to the level where each and every year a Mountain West team is playing in a BCS bowl game."
TCU would mount a lobbying effort against Baylor if the Bears are left out of the conference-realignment mix, the Star-Telegram reported.
But the conference covets Kansas -- and its legendary basketball program.
"Look at it this way," Jayhawks coach Bill Self said Friday at a charity event, according to The Kansas City Star. "No matter what, I'm 100 percent confident we're going to land. And we may land in a group that gives us more exposure than we ever could have had before. We may land with somebody that opens up recruiting doors in areas that we never really tested before. We're not gonna lose what we already have. This may open up new avenues for us."
New avenues are assured for most -- if not all -- of the Big 12.
Colorado left Thursday for the Pac-10 and Nebraska moved to the Big Ten a day later. Texas and the four other programs, not including Baylor, that make up the Big 12 South in football are leaning heavily toward a commitment to the Pac-10, or in Texas A&M's case, a possible jump to the SEC.
"We are gonna be in a BCS conference," Self said, according to the newspaper.
But count Self among those who still believe in the viability of the Big 12.
"If this league is held together," Self said, "we'll go get two teams or six teams and this league will be better than it ever has been."
And the conference's reach doesn't appear to be stopping there.
According to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Kansas, Missouri and Kansas State are on the Mountain West's radar amid a continuing shakeup of the Big 12.
But Baylor isn't considered a candidate to join the conference, with TCU standing staunchly in its way, the Fort Worth newspaper reported, citing unnamed sources.
Big 12 blog
ESPN.com's David Ubben writes about all things Big 12 in his conference blog.
• Blog network:
College Football Nation
"The Mountain West wants to be a national player and continue to grow in that realm," MWC commissioner Craig Thompson said in a conference call with reporters Friday. "We are extremely interested in BCS automatic qualification. We are simply trying to get to the level where each and every year a Mountain West team is playing in a BCS bowl game."
TCU would mount a lobbying effort against Baylor if the Bears are left out of the conference-realignment mix, the Star-Telegram reported.
But the conference covets Kansas -- and its legendary basketball program.
"Look at it this way," Jayhawks coach Bill Self said Friday at a charity event, according to The Kansas City Star. "No matter what, I'm 100 percent confident we're going to land. And we may land in a group that gives us more exposure than we ever could have had before. We may land with somebody that opens up recruiting doors in areas that we never really tested before. We're not gonna lose what we already have. This may open up new avenues for us."
New avenues are assured for most -- if not all -- of the Big 12.
Colorado left Thursday for the Pac-10 and Nebraska moved to the Big Ten a day later. Texas and the four other programs, not including Baylor, that make up the Big 12 South in football are leaning heavily toward a commitment to the Pac-10, or in Texas A&M's case, a possible jump to the SEC.
"We are gonna be in a BCS conference," Self said, according to the newspaper.
But count Self among those who still believe in the viability of the Big 12.
"If this league is held together," Self said, "we'll go get two teams or six teams and this league will be better than it ever has been."
If the Big12 officially disbands, if I'm KU, KSU, Mizzou, Iowa state, etc. I join up with the powers of the MWC and for a new conference that way. I would not look to the Big East who will be the next conference to disappear if any conferences in that area choose to expand. why align yourself with a conference who also has no long term stability?
In fact, since we know the Big 12 needs a number of schools to remain to retain their conference name, BCS auto qualifying status, then I'd invite 6 MWC teams or 5 and Boise State or whatever into the Big 12 before the conference disbands to be able to retain their tv contract, their big 12 name and BCS autoqualifying. If the 5 texas schools leave before getting things in order then those 5 leftover schools might get to keep the conference name but wouldn't have BCS auto qualifying, if I'm remembering right.
Kind of complicated to do it that way, but if I'm those 5 Big 12 schools I demand that other schools give us a chance to survive with the big 12 name, tv contract, and BCS affiliation.
Edit: Nevermind, that wouldn't work at all. Forgot what the rules were.
In fact, since we know the Big 12 needs a number of schools to remain to retain their conference name, BCS auto qualifying status, then I'd invite 6 MWC teams or 5 and Boise State or whatever into the Big 12 before the conference disbands to be able to retain their tv contract, their big 12 name and BCS autoqualifying. If the 5 texas schools leave before getting things in order then those 5 leftover schools might get to keep the conference name but wouldn't have BCS auto qualifying, if I'm remembering right.
Kind of complicated to do it that way, but if I'm those 5 Big 12 schools I demand that other schools give us a chance to survive with the big 12 name, tv contract, and BCS affiliation.
Edit: Nevermind, that wouldn't work at all. Forgot what the rules were.
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Okay, so check this out. i've been hearing some rumors about Kansas not wanting to be in the MWC. Not sure if they're true or not and I know Kansas isn't a huge football program etc. but someone has crunched the BCS numbers and here they are:
These numbers are the computer averages of teams. 1 is good, 120 is the worst team in the country.
MWC before adding Boise 60.32
MWC + Boise 55.03
MWC + Boise, Kanas, KSU 56.25 (utah included)
MWC + Boise Kansas, KSU Mizzou,(-Utah--if they jump to Pac16)59.93181818
So, adding Boise state strengthens the MWC but then adding KU and KSU drops the MWC back. Interesting. If I'm the Big12 rejects I take a closer look at this. And, we definitely know that adding in Baylor and Iowa state would drop it even more.
These numbers are the computer averages of teams. 1 is good, 120 is the worst team in the country.
MWC before adding Boise 60.32
MWC + Boise 55.03
MWC + Boise, Kanas, KSU 56.25 (utah included)
MWC + Boise Kansas, KSU Mizzou,(-Utah--if they jump to Pac16)59.93181818
So, adding Boise state strengthens the MWC but then adding KU and KSU drops the MWC back. Interesting. If I'm the Big12 rejects I take a closer look at this. And, we definitely know that adding in Baylor and Iowa state would drop it even more.
I still think Kansas will be a player in this before it's all said and done due solely to the fact that their Basketball program is top 5 in the nation. Somebody will get a steal in this whole thing.
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