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Spider-Man Legacy (4K+2D Blu-ray SteelBook) (Best Buy Exclusive) [USA]
- Thread starter frankfish44
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I've been a diehard Spidey nut for 40 years, I'm only interested in the Garfield films. Raimis films are an abomination, only good thing about them were the special effects
I'm a film major. And I can only watch the Raimi films. The Marc Webb films are some of the prime examples of a muddled production with no creative vision, narrative cohesion, or tonal consistency.
I went to the Premiere of the first Amazing Film with the film review board for major NY publications. And I walked out of the theatre watching the second one.
Which means absolutely nothing. Many of my favourite directors have no background in academic film studies. Many of my friends went to film school, most of them are clueless about cinema. Its an art form not a technical science. Raimi might be technically clever, but his casting destroyed those films and made them unwatchable to me. Webb might not be technical but he got the essence and casting PERFECT as far as I'm concerned. I also went to film school for 3 years in London, so having to state that again means zero! My opinion or yours is no more meaningful than someone who has no background in anything film related. My masters was in Computer Science, doesn't mean someone with no formal education in computing can't have a relevant or better understanding or opinion than I. Formal qualifications gets you in doors, it doesn't place you above someone without them, who maybe smarter than you
Anyway back to the thread at hand
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And I think because you are a film major you can only watch the Raimi films. To me, films are split between art and entertainment. So when you look at a movie from 100% art perspective, it's understandable that you might not enjoy it. If i were to look for narrative or tone in many of the films i watch i'd have to flush it down the toilet.
Superhero films are not art films, they are made for entertainment so to judge it from an art perspective is being unfair (to yourself)
I'm not tryna put you down or anything so dont take it the wrong way. It's just i notice a trend from all the movies you are not a fan of. Sometimes watch a movie just for entertainment; escape from reality.
There are many other art films for you to judge from an artistic point of view. You dont watch those movies for entertainment, you watch them to appreciate the art of film
Also, I think the university years tend to make all of us rather more vehement and dogmatic about some things that will change with the perspective of more years, more life experience, conversations and friendships with a wider range of people. I'm looking back at my own journey, not judging anyone else (and I know we're all different). I was a music major, and I know the opinions I had during university (especially on the relative worth of "classical" and "pop") have changed a lot as I've lived another 20 years. It's not just "mellowing," or relaxing my standards--it's a different way of perceiving and valuing creativity and the arts.And I think because you are a film major you can only watch the Raimi films. To me, films are split between art and entertainment. So when you look at a movie from 100% art perspective, it's understandable that you might not enjoy it. If i were to look for narrative or tone in many of the films i watch i'd have to flush it down the toilet.
Superhero films are not art films, they are made for entertainment so to judge it from an art perspective is being unfair (to yourself)
I'm not tryna put you down or anything so dont take it the wrong way. It's just i notice a trend from all the movies you are not a fan of. Sometimes watch a movie just for entertainment; escape from reality.
There are many other art films for you to judge from an artistic point of view. You dont watch those movies for entertainment, you watch them to appreciate the art of film
Anyway, I totally agree with you that standards for enjoying or appreciating a superhero film are different from how I look at Kieslowski or Cocteau or anyone more seriously trying to create enduring artistic statements.
As for this 4K Spidey set, I think the important takeaway is to be reminded again of how much better any of those five films were than the trailers for Spider-Man Homecoming.
(I'm willing to change my opinion once I see the whole movie, but goodness those trailers are awful.)
At the end of the day- a film is what you choose to make of it. I don't have an issue with you liking the Webb films- I may not get it- but that's your prerogative.
It's the same feeling when people talk about the Star Wars Original Trilogy Vs. The Prequel Trilogy; Alien Vs. Aliens; or Chris Nolan's Batman Movies vs. Tim Burton's Batman movies.
I get that you have an opinion- and I respect that it is your opinion. But my opinion is different.
I point out that I'm a film major specifically to give credence to the fact that I don't feel as if these films function "as movies" the same way that Age of Ultron "isn't a movie". It wasn't meant to be a dig at you- and I apologize if it came across that way.
It's just i notice a trend from all the movies you are not a fan of. Sometimes watch a movie just for entertainment; escape from reality.
There are many other art films for you to judge from an artistic point of view. You dont watch those movies for entertainment, you watch them to appreciate the art of film
Yeah- it's seem to have been a trend lately that I just can't enjoy a lot of the films. I would think that it was a "me" problem- but every once in a while- a movie will come along and be good. Sometimes, insanely good. It seems that at every point where I'm about to give up on Hollywood- they manage to pump out something that I love. I hated Doctor Strange. I hated Suicide Squad. Just when I thought I was resigned to not caring about Superhero films- we got Logan. Faith restored.
I don't know if it's too much to ask to get films that are both enjoyable and good... Films don't have to be artsy- they just have to be competent.
When films like The Amazing Spider-Man or Fantastic Four try so desperately to focus on world-building, they forget to create a story worthy of having a world built around it.
My fear about the common success of places like Marvel Studios is that they seem so content in making a "safe" film- that we're never going to get something truly spectacular out of them... Because I don't think that Marvel has the ability to produce a Director driven film in the same sense of Warner Brothers pumping out Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight- and I feel that that is a disservice to the material that Marvel has to work with.
Also, I think the university years tend to make all of us rather more vehement and dogmatic about some things that will change with the perspective of more years, more life experience, conversations and friendships with a wider range of people. I'm looking back at my own journey, not judging anyone else (and I know we're all different). I was a music major, and I know the opinions I had during university (especially on the relative worth of "classical" and "pop") have changed a lot as I've lived another 20 years. It's not just "mellowing," or relaxing my standards--it's a different way of perceiving and valuing creativity and the arts.
Anyway, I totally agree with you that standards for enjoying or appreciating a superhero film are different from how I look at Kieslowski or Cocteau or anyone more seriously trying to create enduring artistic statements.
As for this 4K Spidey set, I think the important takeaway is to be reminded again of how much better any of those five films were than the trailers for Spider-Man Homecoming.
Yeah- gotta love Sony's Trailer team. They did the same thing with the Amazing Spider-Man movies- the trailers were also awful. Hopefully nothing in Homecoming was filmed specifically for the trailer- like how Amazing Spider-man 2 did... right?
I have my own reservations for Homecoming- but from Marvel's track record- they've proven that they can consistently make competent films (if somewhat lacking in originality). So I'm sure the movie at least will be fine!
I try my best not to watch the trailer if i know i'll be watching a movie. But it's hard sometimes because they play trailers everywhere nowadays for popular films. And if i end up watching the trailer i try not to judge the movie because i dont want to have high expectations when i go into that movie.As for this 4K Spidey set, I think the important takeaway is to be reminded again of how much better any of those five films were than the trailers for Spider-Man Homecoming.
I'm with you on that. Why dont they make both enjoyable and good films more often? Like you said, we know it can be done. But if you start thinking about all that you'll just be pissed off during the movie. I didnt enjoy Fantastic Four because it broke too many rules within it's world. I can tolerate a couple but F4 was simply a mess. If you look hard enough, you can probably find faults in every movie; even classics. So i try to focus on 'what it has' rather than 'what it doesnt have'.
Also, yes, my sentiments exactly about these Marvel movies. I enjoy them but they always play it 'safe'. But if you look at it from a company's perspective, "safe" is making money. So why would they take risks? But this is why I cant say i'm a huge fan of Marvel. What i do like about DC/WB is that they are willing to take risks but look at how it translate to box office. That's why Suicide Squad was completely changed after the first trailer. If you get a chance compare the 1st and 2nd trailers for SS. There were a lot of complains about the tone (through social media) when it was first released.
Fox took some risks with Deadpool and Logan and yet they were both huge success. So hopefully we'll see more movies like those from Disney/Marvel Studios and WB
It was enjoyable in the sharknado sense, you cant tell me that scene of hom dancing down the streets wasnt damn hilarious because it was so cheesy lol
Sam Raimi's Spider-man 2 is easily the best Spidey film till date.
And one of the best comic book films to date
I am sure it is in the top 5. Also visually it is a stunning film. High production value throughout.
From top to bottom you can tell the film makers really put their all into it, and Raimi's touches are present throughout
As a die hard spidey fan and growing up with the raimi ones from a youngster to getting the Webb ones as a adult I see it like this - if anyone wants to read my thoughts then it's in the spoiler
The originals are enjoyable to a degree but Tobey (possibly one of the worst actors in the world ruins them - BUT he's okay at some moments) raimi sometimes gets the tone right with a comic book style but they are balanced and equally ruined with very childish moments. Spidey 2 will always be my fav but again ruined in some moments, doc oc is by far the best villain out of all the films and if I could have it my way I would have all the fight scenes and doc oc from spidey 2 mixed with Garfield and the tone of the amazing spiderman - to me that's the perfect mix
webbs - I prefer the tone, a bit darker and Garfield was truly amazing as spiderman. Has some very funny moments and the filming and editing smashes the raimi films. His geekness and coolness was on point. But the bad guys were a bit of a let down.
Maguire spiderman f*cks around acting like a p*ssy trying to get the girl and then constantly changing his mind messing her around (i know her does it keep away from being hurt blah blah) while Garfield plays it so well and has a 10 second p*ssy moment and then goes for the kill. Also webbs 500 days of summer shows he can do romance without it being cheesey very very well
And I like both MJs but stone is a tad better but J.K is flawless as Jameson. As much as i love Franco I kinda preferred dehane as Harry but just didn't get enough time in them (his hob goblin wasn't bad and better than Francos but Defoe as the green goblin just has the perfect face, grin and voice) - by the way I see dehane more of a hobgoblin even though he's supposed to be the green goblin
• spiderman 1 - is enjoyable and Defoe is awesome but there's that very strange edit just as the goblin is about to be killed. - that will forever bug me. How was that never changed. As the glider goes into him it cuts to his face and he literally just say "oh" hahahha so bad. Again like my previous comments some great moments ruined by some childish moments.
But will always have a place in my heart because I was young and it's the original
• spidey 2 - the best of the bunch like I've already said but again ruined in some moments (well it's up there with the amazing spidey for me), the extended is even better and Alfred was just too good as doc. The whole scene when he's on the operating table IMO is fantastic and horrific and the only signature style of Raimi in the whole trilogy - the rest you would think someone else made them (not a bad thing - just saying)
• spidey 3 - lol
Er........ Cool action when there is action but the rest is dog sh*t and just about bearable if your able to switch off - venom was just plain awful but I do like the final fight a little bit. Also the opening fight too with Franco.
The moment in the middle where Maguire tries to be cool but gothic!!!!!!! The most cringe moment in film IMO. So awful it ruins the whole film pretty much. I just have to skip that every time - BUT the black suit is very cool and sleek.
• amazing spidey 1 - perfect balance off tone, humour, action, spidey geekness, spidey coolness, use of spideys detective work, editing etc but ifans was the wrong choice. When he's the lizard it's all good but he wasn't right as conners human form plus there's that embarrassing moment at the end when he's trying to pull up spidey on the building and that Yelp ifans comes out with is shocking.
• spidey 2 - similar to my comments for the first but again ruined by the villains in a way, good casting this time but something was off. It kinda slipped in the second with some childish moments considering the 1st was darker and more adult. Had some raimi esque moments that didn't suit it and stuck out like in the ravencroft scenes with that doctor and also when foxx/ max is kinda acting like the riddler from batman forever - just seemed out of place.
But I thought the story was fine and action was flawless like the action in the second raimi film. Another thing that annoyed me was some cut scenes that related to the sinister six and the whole issue with Normans head. Wish we got to see those scenes and was hoping for a directors cut like the original 2nd film.
&
• Tom Holland - I was annoyed it wasn't Garfield cast but I think he's great in civil war and like Garfield gets a good mix of geek, cool and humour, I'm really looking forward to homecoming
Funny how the English lads do a better spidey than an American lol
- all of them have their moments and some much better than others but to disappear in the world for a few hours will always be something I love to do regardless of Maguire being pretty sh*t
And just imagine if Tom cruise was spidey in the raimi films- apparently that was nearly going to happen. I love cruise but that would of been weird lol
- sorry that's quite long - for those that read it lol
webbs - I prefer the tone, a bit darker and Garfield was truly amazing as spiderman. Has some very funny moments and the filming and editing smashes the raimi films. His geekness and coolness was on point. But the bad guys were a bit of a let down.
Maguire spiderman f*cks around acting like a p*ssy trying to get the girl and then constantly changing his mind messing her around (i know her does it keep away from being hurt blah blah) while Garfield plays it so well and has a 10 second p*ssy moment and then goes for the kill. Also webbs 500 days of summer shows he can do romance without it being cheesey very very well
And I like both MJs but stone is a tad better but J.K is flawless as Jameson. As much as i love Franco I kinda preferred dehane as Harry but just didn't get enough time in them (his hob goblin wasn't bad and better than Francos but Defoe as the green goblin just has the perfect face, grin and voice) - by the way I see dehane more of a hobgoblin even though he's supposed to be the green goblin
• spiderman 1 - is enjoyable and Defoe is awesome but there's that very strange edit just as the goblin is about to be killed. - that will forever bug me. How was that never changed. As the glider goes into him it cuts to his face and he literally just say "oh" hahahha so bad. Again like my previous comments some great moments ruined by some childish moments.
But will always have a place in my heart because I was young and it's the original
• spidey 2 - the best of the bunch like I've already said but again ruined in some moments (well it's up there with the amazing spidey for me), the extended is even better and Alfred was just too good as doc. The whole scene when he's on the operating table IMO is fantastic and horrific and the only signature style of Raimi in the whole trilogy - the rest you would think someone else made them (not a bad thing - just saying)
• spidey 3 - lol
Er........ Cool action when there is action but the rest is dog sh*t and just about bearable if your able to switch off - venom was just plain awful but I do like the final fight a little bit. Also the opening fight too with Franco.
The moment in the middle where Maguire tries to be cool but gothic!!!!!!! The most cringe moment in film IMO. So awful it ruins the whole film pretty much. I just have to skip that every time - BUT the black suit is very cool and sleek.
• amazing spidey 1 - perfect balance off tone, humour, action, spidey geekness, spidey coolness, use of spideys detective work, editing etc but ifans was the wrong choice. When he's the lizard it's all good but he wasn't right as conners human form plus there's that embarrassing moment at the end when he's trying to pull up spidey on the building and that Yelp ifans comes out with is shocking.
• spidey 2 - similar to my comments for the first but again ruined by the villains in a way, good casting this time but something was off. It kinda slipped in the second with some childish moments considering the 1st was darker and more adult. Had some raimi esque moments that didn't suit it and stuck out like in the ravencroft scenes with that doctor and also when foxx/ max is kinda acting like the riddler from batman forever - just seemed out of place.
But I thought the story was fine and action was flawless like the action in the second raimi film. Another thing that annoyed me was some cut scenes that related to the sinister six and the whole issue with Normans head. Wish we got to see those scenes and was hoping for a directors cut like the original 2nd film.
&
• Tom Holland - I was annoyed it wasn't Garfield cast but I think he's great in civil war and like Garfield gets a good mix of geek, cool and humour, I'm really looking forward to homecoming
Funny how the English lads do a better spidey than an American lol
- all of them have their moments and some much better than others but to disappear in the world for a few hours will always be something I love to do regardless of Maguire being pretty sh*t
And just imagine if Tom cruise was spidey in the raimi films- apparently that was nearly going to happen. I love cruise but that would of been weird lol
- sorry that's quite long - for those that read it lol
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I really don't see the point in this release. It doesn't make sense to be perfectly honest. Spider-Man and The Amazing Spider-Man are two entirely separate spinoffs according to the comic books. It's expensive too. eek!
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