Open Or Sealed? The Debate

[JLSTF]

How many people open their Steelbooks when they buy them or do you just leave them sealed.

So far i have 13 Steelbooks and have opened 3 i opened Angels and Demons,Inglorious Bastards and District 9.

I fear if i open my pirates and nightmare before christmas ones i will have to modify them to be able to put the discs in and not have them in a sleeve

 

[mnementh]

Found this on Ebay and whilst it deals with another area of collecting, I agree with it...

MINT IN THE BOX-NOT!

As a die cast metal replica dealer and collector I have found more than one instance on the part of a e-Bay seller using "mint in the box" not realizing that a marked up outer box slashed with a marking pen, the original packing materials no where to be found, repairs made to an item using the wrong screw or? and then not stating it has been altered from the original is enough to drive a collector/buyer up the wall when the package arrives. When I wrote to the seller about a problem-his response was "I didn't say it was new" and seemed to think that solved the problem. Well, what the heck is "mint in the box"?

MINT IN THE BOX

The term Mint in the Box in the collector world does not mean brand new. If it was being sold as brand new it would be Mint in the Box by default.

Mint In the Box refers to items that have been in a collection, held in storage, excess old inventory or any other manner to be demmed "not new". Mint in the Box refers to items that are in the original box (undamaged outer box or marked by stickers or marking pens), with the original packing materials (usually a plastic bag or styrofoam) as originally packed by the producer, and the item has not been on display outside of the box or repaired by the original collector or seller. Usually items that have been displayed can be damaged by sunlight (even painted diecast collectibiles can fade in sunlight) subject to an environment that contains cigarette or other tobacco smoke, excess moisture/humidity, or subject to mechanical wear and tear from being handled or stored incorrectly.

Mint In the Box can be used if the seller notes that there is some shelf wear on the outside of the box to let the buyer/collector know that the outer box is not in mint condition. Terms such as "slight shelfwear" or some slight damage to the box helps avoid having a buyer upset about what they bought. Why the big deal about the outer box?

OUTER BOX

Until several years ago people didn't bother with keeping a box that an item came in and discarded both the box and packing materials and displayed the items proudly. Then, the market changed and having all the packing materials and box became important to the possible resale value of a collectible. The more original (with box, packing materials and mint item), the higher the perceived value to collectors. As we went through the collectible frenzy the collector became more particular about what they were buying and thus another term popped up-"Never removed from Box" or "Removed from box for picture". For many buyers that does not matter but for the serious collector this is important information to know about an item

 

[dfoles]

You could never buy a bottle of Lafite Rothschild 1982, open it and then sell it as mint.

But this isn't an item where the psychical condition regarding dings, dents, nicks, scratches, spine slashes, etc can be hidden by the packaging.

I think there's a difference between Mint Sealed and True Mint.

Definitely Schrödinger's Steelbook, but it seems more than an "ignorance is bliss" kind of situation.

 

[mnementh]

Mint condition is an expression used in the description of pre-owned goods. Originally, the phrase comes from the way collectors describe the condition of coins. As the name given to a coin factory is a 'mint', then mint condition is the condition a coin is in as it leaves the mint

Mint Condition use of this status really should not be used to describe the condition of steelbooks or other items that are sealed

The term mint condition really is only meant to describe a condition of a coin

When advertising a Steelbook for sale that's sealed all you can advertise its never been opened and you cant say its mint as you don't know its condition

Quick - call ebay and get them to close down all auctions that use the word mint, but don't include a coin or a polo

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

But this isn't an item where the psychical condition regarding dings, dents, nicks, scratches, spine slashes, etc can be hidden by the packaging.

I think there's a difference between Mint Sealed and True Mint.

Definitely Schrödinger's Steelbook, but it seems more than an "ignorance is bliss" kind of situation.

Regarding the wine - it is. The originals came in a sealed paper wrapping, so you couldn't see the levels, or the seals or the label.

I'm not sure what you mean by true mint. As I keep saying, this is a completely subjective matter. What you percieve to be 'true mint' may not be held so by others.

And I wouldn't say it's ignorance by anyone, as that just sounds inflammatory.

 

[dfoles]

And I wouldn't say it's ignorance by anyone, as that just sounds inflammatory.

Not trying to flame, just saying it's like saying "I'd rather not know if there's damage" and then calling it damage free.

 

[paulboland]

Quick - call ebay and get them to close down all auctions that use the word mint, but don't include a coin or a polo

This has happened over time the wrong use of the word in mint condition but at this stage be difficult to stop as it to widely used wrongly

The proper status for a product that's sealed is never been opened still in its original packaging the use of mint condition really should not be used for this
but its been wrongly been used by a lot of people

It really only officially applies to a condition of a coin saying its in mint condition

 

[mnementh]

This has happened over time the wrong use of the word in mint condition but at this stage be difficult to stop as it to widely used wrongly

The proper status for a product that's sealed is never been opened still in its original packaging the use of mint condition really should not be used for this
but its been wrongly been used by a lot of people

I agree to a point, but languages and meaning evolve over time, so mint is now associated with all forms of collecting.

But that's a conversation for another thread (I'm sure I've said that before)

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------

Not trying to flame, just saying it's like saying "I'd rather not know if there's damage" and then calling it damage free.

Just curious - would you email this seller and ask him to open the packaging to check the pen worked ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56579b8c13

 

[paulboland]

I agree to a point, but languages and meaning evolve over time, so mint is now associated with all forms of collecting.

But that's a conversation for another thread (I'm sure I've said that before)

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------



Just curious - would you email this seller and ask him to open the packaging to check the pen worked ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56579b8c13

US $70,000.00
Oh my God
That's an expensive pen


The thing listed for sale on ebay are sometimes especially the prices
The Pen is mighty

 

[dfoles]

Just curious - would you email this seller and ask him to open the packaging to check the pen worked ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56579b8c13

I was wondering if you would you open the packaging to check the pen worked, and what colour ink is inside.

I'll let you know if I hear back from him.

 

[psychoscot]

I understand were your coming from in regard to keeping sealed
All you have is a sealed item with its condition unknown

You cant say though something you have is mint if its not been opened
If your selling a item you cant advertise it as mint if its not been fully inspected

Example a steelbook or a Box Set is advertised for sale as in mint condition and when the customer gets delivery and fully opens the package and sees damage then its not mint its condition is damaged

Mint means item is in perfect condition with no damage anywhere
Unless you know an item is in perfect condition you cant say its in mint condition all you can say is sealed condition and status of contents condition is unknown

Correct dude! Mint = flawless/perfect. It doesn't mean new. New means new.

I rarely buy opened steels, always new and generally find that they are listed as new/sealed. Don't often see them listed as mint. I see plenty open ones listed as mint. Mint to me and most people in the record collectors market that I know use the term mint to describe condition, not whether it's new or not.

A sealed steel cannot be mint, unless the full steel can be seen through the wrap. It can only be new.

 

[dfoles]

I'd like to point out that this recent wave of debate was brought up by Zavvi's packaging of V for Vendetta.

If only they packed their steelbooks better, we wouldn't be having this debate (right now)

 

[psychoscot]

I'd like to point out that this recent wave of debate was brought up by Zavvi's packaging of V for Vendetta.

If only they packed their steelbooks better, we wouldn't be having this debate (right now)

Hence why I no longer shop with Zavvi.

 

[mnementh]

Dear Zavvi - Did you kill Jesus ?

 

[psychoscot]

Dear Zavvi - Did you kill Jesus ?

Yeah they posted him to the Romans in an A1 mailer that Zavvi provided and got crushed to death on route!

 

[dfoles]

Yeah they posted him to the Romans in an A1 mailer that Zavvi provided and got crushed to death on route!

They might offer you a £3 partial refund

 

[MrBMT]

As this was raised again in the V thread, I thought I'd give my opinions (please remember these are my opinions and not intended to upset anyone - I know some people get a bit tetchy on this subject)

Firstly background -I've been an avid collector all my life across multiple items. From comics, fine wines, whiskys, 1st edition books, animation and original artwork and other stuff !

I have always kept everything sealed. The packaging is part of the product and therefore any tears, rips etc mean that (for me) the item is not in mint condition.

If an item has been opened then the best it can be is excellent. It doesn't matter if there are no defects, because the original seal has been removed then it cannot be mint.

With steelbooks, I know people say that because I haven't opened something then I can't say it's mint, but this is a Schrodinger's cat argument. If the item is sealed and appears to be defect free, then it is mint. If it opened and defect free, then it is in excellent used condition.

If you could call an opened steelbook mint, then an opened IM FS would command the same price as a sealed IMFS with stickers. I have never seen this happen.

Please remember these are my opinions and how I judge something to be mint condition. Others have differing opinions, however they try and enforce them on people.

People should be allowed to collect how they see fit, with no judgement from anyone else.

Until there is a global definition of conditions recognised (as there is for comics, wine etc) This matter will always be subjective

Interesting, personally I've always considered "Mint" to be an open/unsealed item, free of any visible defects, damage, blemishes, etc. whereas anything not pre-owned either "New & Sealed" or "New & Unsealed" - a new item can therefore be damaged (e.g. hidden underneath a J-Card) whereas a Mint one can not be (at least in the way I use the terms).

Therefore, when collecting Steelbooks I prefer them to be opened and "Mint", especially when they come complete with J-Card and any stickers on the original shrink wrap.

As mentioned previously, I open all my steelbooks (first and foremost because part of the reason I collect them is for the artwork, and feel never seeing the inside artwork would be a great shame), however I also watch every film.

Having opened them, I then transfer them to a Steelbook sleeve complete with J-Card, take any stickers off the original shrink wrap and affix them to the Steelbook sleeve - if I could purchase every single Steelbook I acquired this way, it would definitely be my preference.

Note: I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right, simply explaining my point of view.

 

[mnementh]

Interesting, personally I've always considered "Mint" to be a second-hand item, free of any visible defects, damage, blemishes, etc. whereas anything not pre-owned either "New & Sealed" or "New & Unsealed" - a new item can therefore be damaged (e.g. hidden underneath a J-Card) whereas a Mint one can not be (at least in the way I use the terms).

Interesting, as where Paul pointed out, Mint should be brand new off the production line.

Another case where language/meaning has evolved (across geographic regions possibly?)

 

[dfoles]

Just curious - would you email this seller and ask him to open the packaging to check the pen worked ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MONTBLANC...187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56579b8c13

I was wondering if you would you open the packaging to check the pen worked, and what colour ink is inside.

I'll let you know if I hear back from him.

Hello and thank you for your inquiry. There is no ink inside - just a pen that is not filled with ink. You can fill it with any color ink you want.
The pen is sold in a sealed condition. I will not be able to open it, unless I get a full payment on it. The pen is covered by Montblanc unconditional warranty against defects of material and workmanship. If you buy the pen, I can open it and verify that everything works well prior to shipping.
Please feel free to contact me in the future if you require assistance or have any other questions.
Best regards,
Emil

- mika13

I wish Scanovo/Zavvi had one of those...

 

[MrBMT]

Interesting, as where Paul pointed out, Mint should be brand new off the production line.

Another case where language/meaning has evolved (across geographic regions possibly?)

I've revised what I wrote slightly; I actually meant open/unsealed rather than explicitly second hand.

A lot of items I would describe as mint are ones I acquired directly from the retailer and opened myself rather than another owner, having said that I would still consider an item to be mint even when pre-owned provided it had no visible damage/defects/blemishes.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[psychoscot]

Interesting, as where Paul pointed out, Mint should be brand new off the production line.

Another case where language/meaning has evolved (across geographic regions possibly?)

Yep it's a language issue. Personally I prefer to use the term OCD when talking about new sealed steels, and prefer flawless over mint when talking about open items.

 

[mnementh]

I've revised what I wrote slightly; I actually meant open/unsealed rather than explicitly second hand.

A lot of items I would describe as mint are ones I acquired directly from the retailer and opened myself rather than another owner, having said that I would still consider an item to be mint even when pre-owned provided it had no visible damage/defects/blemishes.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Personally, I see anything that has been opened as second hand