An Open Letter to BluFans, Let's Talk about Kevin

[apsmith21]

Hi members of HiDefNinja, it is with some sadness that I write to you today about the end of an era here at HDN.

Recently a situation unfolded where one of our group buy hubs was accused of stealing a number of copies of a BluFans release, and was told that they needed to repay Kevin over $1,000 to replace the items that were lost.

The items in question represent less than 1% of the total items in a BluFans print run.

Some people would have you believe this is just a "disagreement" between HDN and Kevin.

If you are new to HDN, or perhaps just not aware of how these group buys work with BluFans - the hubs, the persons responsible for shipping out hundreds upon hundreds of steelbooks work for very little (if any) compensation. I would propose that our hubs are some of the most trustworthy members here and a great asset to this site. Often they do their best to combine shipping for you to reduce the cost in general and bring you a great release, safely packaged and delivered - such that you do not have to rely on ebay sellers or other folks that will mark these items up.

Having said that, packages sent from BluFans are done in the following way.

1) They are marked a very low value and as "plastic" cards to avoid customs
2) Tracking numbers, are rarely shared with the hubs.
3) There is no invoice or packing slip that state how many items should have been received.
4) Sometimes members are left off or missed in the creation of the lists. Meaning the count of the total items sent is not always accurate.

Therefore, as a hub on this forum, there is a level of trust that we put in not only BluFans, but also bluraysteel (Kevin) to accurately and correctly convey our responsibilities in delivering these releases to you. To give you an idea, one box (only one!) of BluFans steels can exceed $900 in total value.

These boxes are NOT insured! So what happens when items are lost, not sent, or the records are incorrect? It appears that they will come after the group buy hubs!

And as this trust has now been violated, as no hub now or previously (unless they keep very thorough records of every shipment made, to every member that is on their list) can completely disprove the accusation that has been made. We have nothing at our disposal that can show without a doubt what we say is true, despite the pictures on our threads of the items, the posts about when we received them, and the other information we very publicly share with you, our members, to keep you up to date.

To restate this...it has been said that one of us, one of our hubs, is not a person that can be trusted.

I've gone to great lengths to personally investigate this question and provide pictures, posts and other information that show very clearly that HDN nor our hub stole from BluFans.

I think we can all agree that we love BluFans releases. We love the package, we love their thought and care that is put into creating a wonderful collectors items. But it seems as though bluraysteel has decided to take all of his group buys somewhere else in retaliation for not sending him $1000.

I cannot stop you from supporting BluFans releases, and I'm not asking you to not buy their steelbooks. But I would like you to consider that you will not receive the support from moderators and staff members on other forums that you have received here. There likely will not be any quantity per member limits that are enforced. There will not be the hubs you have worked with so many times before. I hope there are not other challenges as well.

I would like to take this opportunity to call on BluFans, to call on Abu to replace bluraysteel as the liaison between our two forums, and to instead use someone that can work with HDN, and will not turn on HDN or our hubs so quickly.

Thank you very much for reading this thread, and I would like to personally apologize to you if this causes any trouble.

For members of my UP 3D slip hub, as far as I'm aware some of these are on the way to me currently - and if they do arrive, I will continue to assist in completing this group buy and bring you the items you paid for.

Best regards,

Andy

 

[djprodikis]

Glad to see everyone is venting, and its been pretty peaceful on here

 

[stevien]

I will not be going to another site for Blufans releases, what has happened here could easily happen again over there. Not blaming anybody but if a package was to 'get lost' in the future would we all be out of pocket again?
Also, I may have got this wrong, but this is how it looks to me, if a box has gone missing on it's way to a hub and Kevin want's $1000 to cover this box, what has happened to all the money that has already been paid by HDN members? Do we not pay up front for these steels? So, has Kevin not been paid already for the missing box?
I have nothing on order at the moment but I hope everyone that is waiting get their goods. Unless something get's sorted my Blufan's collecting days are over.

 

[Klownicle]

A shame to hear all this, it seemed the relationship was too good to last without faults. Coming from BD, I'm cautious to see where things go with that. I'm unaware if the structure we are all used to follows with that.

I don't think you will find a better experience elsewhere than HDN for any groupbuy, regardless of who its held by.

 

[urbeenjammin]

Let's get a contact at Blufans, and sell them through the HDN store. Sounds like a plan to me

Anything that allows us to order directly is the way to go whether its the HDN store or blufans directly.There are just too many stops and waiting in between after payments are sent initially.Hosting these group buys are not an easy task.Whenever large amounts of money are involved,sooner or later the temptation gets the better of weaker and unfortunate individuals and the innocent buyers have to pay the big price in the end.Having HDN's own store is a big leverage but i'm not really sure how Wreck and staff would feel or be able to do anything about that.We have members here that are from China and they can be our translator to move this relationship forward.
No matter where these "other" group buy forums are, and i mean no disrespect, there is NO ONE and i mean NO ONE that can even come close to the buying power that we have here at HDN and Blufans knows that, and that more than anything gives us the biggest leverage.

 

[GroundZero81]

This is truely sad news NOBODY likes cconfrontation that can't be resolved

 

[mnementh]

In response to members signing up for that other forum - I'm working on some other avenues that may allow us to have a group buy on this forum for the Monsters U release.

While we won't be going through Kevin, perhaps this would be an option for some of you that are still interested in this release, and the support that HDN mods & staff bring to the table.

No promises, just wanted to mention that I'm not sitting on my laurels and we're actively investigating other ideas.

The second this happens, I'm there. Purchasing via HDN is a total preference for me just because of all the hard work, time and effort put in by the Mods, Staff, GB Hosts, Amateur Glossers, Photographers, Zavvi Bashers, Professional Moaners etc.

 

[Soundeath]

When I first read this thread and other posts from different members..
I know Kevin only from my side and he always been so thoughtful and considerate, I learn alot of things from him as well as I did with other ninja members over the years. I know that as long we hear/read other sides to the story without listening/knowing Kevin's version of the story, none can be so judgemental.
I'm positive that things will be clearer within time.

Some of my outside friends tend to think that BluFans releases comes cheap and they want to know exactly for what they're paying for, but most of them just don't understand how GBs work and how much effort and hard work they make to please all the participants. It was always beyond me. Everytime a GB is created and all of the members get their steelbooks, it's like having a christmas miracle.
GB managers know their way, HDN and Kevin will always have my appreciation and respect. I never questioned the costs because I know how it goes from the inside.

I hope that everything will be sorted out in the best way possible.

 

[digitalbabe]

Folks, I've been away for a few days, and have just read the entire thread as well as all related messages. I just wanted to add that all of the comments regarding the 'direct' route, and making things less complicated for our members has been discussed on numerous occasions with Kevin for over a year.

However, as someone remarked this is not a direct relationship, due to the way business is often done in China (I have sourced and worked with manufacturers and other companies in other countries since the 90's for my own businesses, so I have experience myself as well), there are always many 'moving parts'. However Kevin's relationship came to be with Blufans, and whatever details are involved have always been respected at HDN, because the relationship was pre-existing, and respect was paid to that fact.

However, it was suggested that logistics and arrangements be streamlined on their end, so that our members could get info and releases faster. Those changes were not made, because there was money to be made 'in between' the chain on Kevin's end, as he originally started the group buys here. Having been involved in shipping and logistics for over a decade, and currently involved still on a global scale(nothing to do with Blufans), the 'moving parts' of sales of this qty and larger are not 'straight forward'. There are often brokers, agents, etc, who sell for companies.

Andy,as our Trading Manager, and an experienced trader, himself, for many, many years has coordinated the relationship with Blufans, in order to make the sign up, publication of group buys (being here at buy launches,and supporting members in the threads with questions that went unanswered by Blufans), and logistics of shipment easier for everyone, including Kevin.

This site is and continues to be community-driven, and as such I hope that a reasonable solution is forthcoming from Kevin and Blufans given the portion of the benefits-including markup, as well as publicity, they all stand to reap on their end.

The hub leaders at HDN are the ones doing the 'nuts and bolt', 'meat and potatoe' coordination and shipping of Steels at this point, because of the overwhelming qty interest that has been generated by this site, and the Staff's commitment to helping unique Steelbook releases get into the hands of collectors (though we know, inevitably that bulk buys occur behind the scenes).

None of us have anything against Kevin, personally-I personally hope for the sake of our members who seek these releases, that a better system of handling the disbursement of their titles on Blufans end, and info will take place going forward. The 'leap' to the other site seems to have occurred out of desperation because of the $1000 that Blufans is asking Kevin to pay, but of course it is his choice, whether he wishes to abandon the HDN relationship permanently.

I know for certain that hours, days, weeks and months have been spent by Andy trying to eliminate the delays and complications/confusion about individual shipments-and himself served as hub. I hope Kevin can manage a way to get out from under the additional pressure these qty requirements have brought to him, by his own admission, and a more permanent and less volatile solution can be reached, long-term. Since I came to this community years ago, effort as at no other site has been put into the group buy and trading community at HDN-both to create safe trading rules and policies-and new opportunities to obtain items otherwise difficult or almost impossible to obtain. It will be unfortunate if this cannot be resolved, but I'll continue to keep a light on.

 

[wayne71]

I was shocked to see this, and wont be joining another forum just to join a gb. I trust HDN and the staff that run the site as well as the gbs and would only ever recommend them or use them myself.

I have UP 3D to come, and want to thank naughtius for his prompt reassuring email, i wont do a knee jerk reaction and try to get my money back from paypal but will wait to see if they do turn up first.

Again, thank you to HDN and the staff here for keeping everyone informed

 

[urbeenjammin]

Not sure how much money was being made in between...but the initial selling price for Monsters University directly from Blufans was around $45 usd.It maybe be true that a direct buy might never be possible but thats another reason why we can just keep trying because of the price discrepancy between what buyers here end up paying versus what they could have been paying ordering directly.
Just imagine if we were being asked to pay for the Thor Kimchidvd exclusive for 66 usd.It would be an uproar...Well thats what you're paying for the Blufans group buys now to keep things in perspective.

 

[Lordhumungus]

I said I would reply back if I heard from Kevin on the other forum, but it looks like basically everything has already been said here. On a slightly more positive note, it looks like no one is purposefully trying to screw anyone else out of what has already been ordered.

To change gears for a second, my roommate is a lawyer that specializes in negotiation and alternative dispute resolution. As much of a pain in the ass as he is to live with sometimes, I feel like I should have him call everyone to the table to get this sorted out.

 

[CyberAthlete]

So what happened?

• -BluFans shipped the Up 3D slip for the GB to Kevin (who is the hub for all blufans releases)
• -Kevin says he never received the order from BluFans and is saying that they need to re-ship all the orders since it's on them
• -BluFans says that they fulfilled all the orders and Kevin has the steelbooks?

 

[Miffed]

Folks, I've been away for a few days, and have just read the entire thread as well as all related messages.

Bet that was fun! hope you had a nice strong drink on hand!

Although i've only been on this site less than a year i've participated in several BF group buys and have nothing but admiration and respect for the mods and staff of HDN regarding all the work they do with the group buys and everything else. I hope a solution can be worked out to the benefit of all, including Blufans and Kevin.
But if not life moves on, steelbook collecting is alot of fun and i am very proud of my collection (much to my girlfriends confusion and occasional anoyance!) and if i dont get future BF releases the world won't end. I might join GB's on the other forum i may not will wait and see how things turn out.
I wont judge HDN, Kevin or Blufans on this issue as i dont know enough of whats happening and personally have had no problems with any party involved.

Lets all cross fingers for a solution if not lets all celebrate the many other steelbooks out there we can spend our money on!!!

 

[Jericho]

And here I thought I was going to get a "We Need to Talk About Kevin" BluFans Steelbook

So the thread turned out much more disappointing

 

[Zero]

First of all i have to say that i have complete trust in HDN and everyone involved in running this site!!!!

I´m 100% sure everything human possible will be done that everybody who is waiting for a Steel he already paid for will also receive it. From my own experience with the HDN staff i think there are no more trustworthy persons in the Steelbook collectors business than here on HDN! To accuse them steeling is just rediculous!!!! That a package was lost is really a shame but it is something that can happen in international shipping.
I am very sorry a situation like this arised. I really like many of the blufans releases and i hope that things with kevin will get solved. I really don´t know enough of what was going on behind the scene but i do hope that things will get cleared up and that future blufans group buys will get hosted on HDN again and that the trust that seems to be gone lost right now will get restored by a good partnership.

 

[stevien]

So what happened?

• -BluFans shipped the Up 3D slip for the GB to Kevin (who is the hub for all blufans releases)
• -Kevin says he never received the order from BluFans and is saying that they need to re-ship all the orders since it's on them
• -BluFans says that they fulfilled all the orders and Kevin has the steelbooks?

If that was the case, why would Kevin abandon HDN and go to another site? And surely these would have been paid for in advance? Would anyone ship anything to anybody if no money had changed hands first?

 

[Hooch]

The second this happens, I'm there. Purchasing via HDN is a total preference for me just because of all the hard work, time and effort put in by the Mods, Staff, GB Hosts, Amateur Glossers, Photographers, Zavvi Bashers, Professional Moaners etc.

+1 100%

 

[pdbluray]

I have just created a bluray forum account.

But I feel like I am cheating.

I support Hi def ninja to it fullest the mods are the best I have seen to amount of time taken to ensure the safty of its users money in the trades/GB sections is second to none.

IN HI DEF NINJA WE TRUST.

 

[khamito]

Hi fellows,

If i understand correctly (sorry my birth language is Klingon not english), BF shipped some steels to Kevin but the package was lost (things happened) and they accused him of stealing the steels ?

Did 3 GB (1 on going UP 3D) thanks to him and everything was perfect. He always was a pleasant guy to deal with. Answers fast and all.

I hope that this will work out.

 

[RickB84]

£1000 worth of steels don't just get lost, the box must be massive! Haunt these delivery companies with phone calls. They don't just vanish or get thrown in a skip. These steels are sitting in a box somewhere waiting to be found. This shouldn't be a case of who to blame, it should a case of let's find this damn box!