An Open Letter to BluFans, Let's Talk about Kevin

[apsmith21]

Hi members of HiDefNinja, it is with some sadness that I write to you today about the end of an era here at HDN.

Recently a situation unfolded where one of our group buy hubs was accused of stealing a number of copies of a BluFans release, and was told that they needed to repay Kevin over $1,000 to replace the items that were lost.

The items in question represent less than 1% of the total items in a BluFans print run.

Some people would have you believe this is just a "disagreement" between HDN and Kevin.

If you are new to HDN, or perhaps just not aware of how these group buys work with BluFans - the hubs, the persons responsible for shipping out hundreds upon hundreds of steelbooks work for very little (if any) compensation. I would propose that our hubs are some of the most trustworthy members here and a great asset to this site. Often they do their best to combine shipping for you to reduce the cost in general and bring you a great release, safely packaged and delivered - such that you do not have to rely on ebay sellers or other folks that will mark these items up.

Having said that, packages sent from BluFans are done in the following way.

1) They are marked a very low value and as "plastic" cards to avoid customs
2) Tracking numbers, are rarely shared with the hubs.
3) There is no invoice or packing slip that state how many items should have been received.
4) Sometimes members are left off or missed in the creation of the lists. Meaning the count of the total items sent is not always accurate.

Therefore, as a hub on this forum, there is a level of trust that we put in not only BluFans, but also bluraysteel (Kevin) to accurately and correctly convey our responsibilities in delivering these releases to you. To give you an idea, one box (only one!) of BluFans steels can exceed $900 in total value.

These boxes are NOT insured! So what happens when items are lost, not sent, or the records are incorrect? It appears that they will come after the group buy hubs!

And as this trust has now been violated, as no hub now or previously (unless they keep very thorough records of every shipment made, to every member that is on their list) can completely disprove the accusation that has been made. We have nothing at our disposal that can show without a doubt what we say is true, despite the pictures on our threads of the items, the posts about when we received them, and the other information we very publicly share with you, our members, to keep you up to date.

To restate this...it has been said that one of us, one of our hubs, is not a person that can be trusted.

I've gone to great lengths to personally investigate this question and provide pictures, posts and other information that show very clearly that HDN nor our hub stole from BluFans.

I think we can all agree that we love BluFans releases. We love the package, we love their thought and care that is put into creating a wonderful collectors items. But it seems as though bluraysteel has decided to take all of his group buys somewhere else in retaliation for not sending him $1000.

I cannot stop you from supporting BluFans releases, and I'm not asking you to not buy their steelbooks. But I would like you to consider that you will not receive the support from moderators and staff members on other forums that you have received here. There likely will not be any quantity per member limits that are enforced. There will not be the hubs you have worked with so many times before. I hope there are not other challenges as well.

I would like to take this opportunity to call on BluFans, to call on Abu to replace bluraysteel as the liaison between our two forums, and to instead use someone that can work with HDN, and will not turn on HDN or our hubs so quickly.

Thank you very much for reading this thread, and I would like to personally apologize to you if this causes any trouble.

For members of my UP 3D slip hub, as far as I'm aware some of these are on the way to me currently - and if they do arrive, I will continue to assist in completing this group buy and bring you the items you paid for.

Best regards,

Andy

 

[pdbluray]

£1000 worth of steels don't just get lost, the box must be massive! Haunt these delivery companies with phone calls. They don't just vanish or get thrown in a skip. These steels are sitting in a box somewhere waiting to be found. This shouldn't be a case of who to blame, it should a case of let's find this damn box!

I feel a potential blockbuster coming, starring Liam Neeson, Tom Hardy, Tom Hanks, matthew mcconaughey, leonardo dicaprio and Gary Oldman.

Just need to find a director and a script writer.

 

[Klownicle]

Hi fellows,

If i understand correctly (sorry my birth language is Klingon not english), BF shipped some steels to Kevin but the package was lost (things happened) and they accused him of stealing the steels ?

Did 3 GB (1 on going UP 3D) thanks to him and everything was perfect. He always was a pleasant guy to deal with. Answers fast and all.

I hope that this will work out.

I think its the next leg up, where Kevin shipped to a hdn hub and the hdn hub claims to not have received it, but Kevin wants hdn to still pay. Hdn doesn't want to pay as it wasn't their lose nor can it be proved it was truly shipped or something like that. At least that's how I read it. So Kevin moves on to bluray forums because hdn isn't paying for what can't be expected to be paid for and is now banned from hdn.

Take my words with a grain of salt. Just how I read it.

Meanwhile. :movie:

 

[RickB84]

I feel a potential blockbuster coming, starring Liam Neeson, Tom Hardy, Tom Hanks, matthew mcconaughey, leonardo dicaprio and Gary Oldman.

Just need to find a director and a script writer.

"I don't who you are, I don't know what you want with my box but I will find you, and I will post those steels"

(In Banes voice) "The delivery charge rises!"

 

[morfeusz]

without doubt this thread is same popular as Iron Man Kimchi

 

[pdbluray]

I have added Michael Caine and christen bale to the cast.
"With respect Master Wreck, perhaps this is a man that *you* don't fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was in China. My friends and I were working for the local Steelbook producer. They were trying to buy the loyalty of Mods by bribing them with precious steelbooks. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Bluray by a bandit. So, we went looking for the steelbooks. But in six months, we never met anybody who did a group buy with him. One day, I saw a child playing with a steelbook the size of my hand. The bandit had been throwing them away."

"So why steal them?"

"Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like Steelbooks. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or included in a group buy with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

 

[lgans316]

How to trace the lost package? Remember those dialogues from Taken? If will find you...

 

[stevien]

I think its the next leg up, where Kevin shipped to a hdn hub and the hdn hub claims to not have received it, but Kevin wants hdn to still pay. Hdn doesn't want to pay as it wasn't their lose nor can it be proved it was truly shipped or something like that. At least that's how I read it. So Kevin moves on to bluray forums because hdn isn't paying for what can't be expected to be paid for and is now banned from hdn.

Take my words with a grain of salt. Just how I read it.

Meanwhile. :movie:

That's how I read it as well, the only thing is would they not have been paid for before they were shipped?

 

[apsmith21]

So what happened?

• -BluFans shipped the Up 3D slip for the GB to Kevin (who is the hub for all blufans releases)
• -Kevin says he never received the order from BluFans and is saying that they need to re-ship all the orders since it's on them
• -BluFans says that they fulfilled all the orders and Kevin has the steelbooks?

If that was the case, why would Kevin abandon HDN and go to another site? And surely these would have been paid for in advance? Would anyone ship anything to anybody if no money had changed hands first?

To be fair guys, the very basic facts are as follows.

1) A group buy that happened previously was the one in question. Nothing recently shipped or yet to be shipped.

2) Kevin stated that there were more steels sent to the hub than sent to the members, and that the hub was with holding these items, or essentially had stolen these items.

China -> hub -> members here

Items sent from Kevin are usually remainders, returns and the like. Hubs get direct shipments from China, in larger quantities at a time.

3) Kevin requested the amount in total for these missing steels be paid by HDN or the hub.

In terms of UP 2D slip - many of these have been mailed already and should be in the hands of most members here.

In terms of UP 3D slip - a unknown quantity of these have supposedly been shipped to hubs. How much, or what will happen to the remainder, and how that will be communicated from BluFans are questions that I have not received answers to - and I have reached out to other folks that should respond...as it's in their best interest to do so.

Fine to discuss everything, but let's not try to muddy the waters even more than they already are.

Thanks for the continued feedback and shows of support for HDN and our group buys / hosts.

 

[Starling]

In my business you account for the 3%. The 3% could be anything from the dishonest and/or complainants, right through to the dissatisfied. This 3% are the inevitable results of differing expectations, to outright ignorance or fraudulent.

You account for it, it happens, it's the real world.

What you don't do is allow it to affect the 97%, they are the ones you maintain your focus on. I would ask that if this is a one off (and it concerns only $1k) HDN should allow for it, settle it, and move on with goodwill to all.

That is how you do business.

 

[SlyFondle]

£1000 worth of steels don't just get lost, the box must be massive! Haunt these delivery companies with phone calls. They don't just vanish or get thrown in a skip. These steels are sitting in a box somewhere waiting to be found. This shouldn't be a case of who to blame, it should a case of let's find this damn box!

You don't need a massive box for 20 steelbooks.

 

[urbeenjammin]

One box, 50 boxes, it makes no difference.It's $1000.00 and thats the difference.

 

[Berthengamwhite]

Even though I seldom post, I am on the forum practically every day and the one thing that strikes me is this community is different and the staff are fantastically dedicated. I for one will trust in HDN to resolve the issue and provide the opportunity to acquire these steels at some point in the future.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

FYI UK Hub will be getting their UP 3D slip versions in the next week or so.

 

[CyberAthlete]

Spoiler

To be fair guys, the very basic facts are as follows.

1) A group buy that happened previously was the one in question. Nothing recently shipped or yet to be shipped.

2) Kevin stated that there were more steels sent to the hub than sent to the members, and that the hub was with holding these items, or essentially had stolen these items.

China -> hub -> members here

Items sent from Kevin are usually remainders, returns and the like. Hubs get direct shipments from China, in larger quantities at a time.

3) Kevin requested the amount in total for these missing steels be paid by HDN or the hub.

In terms of UP 2D slip - many of these have been mailed already and should be in the hands of most members here.

In terms of UP 3D slip - a unknown quantity of these have supposedly been shipped to hubs. How much, or what will happen to the remainder, and how that will be communicated from BluFans are questions that I have not received answers to - and I have reached out to other folks that should respond...as it's in their best interest to do so.

Fine to discuss everything, but let's not try to muddy the waters even more than they already are.

Thanks for the continued feedback and shows of support for HDN and our group buys / hosts.

Thanks for clarifying. So where does Kevin reside? in the US? So he receives everything from the hub (based in China?) but in his case he received fewer items from the hub than anticipated and then why does Kevin want compensation from the hub or HDN? Sorry, but just trying to understand the entire thing here...

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

I have just created a bluray forum account.

But I feel like I am cheating.

I support Hi def ninja to it fullest the mods are the best I have seen to amount of time taken to ensure the safty of its users money in the trades/GB sections is second to none.

IN HI DEF NINJA WE TRUST.

Nothing wrong with br.com.I was a member there before HDN and they have by far the best and most dedicated deals thread when it comes to blu-ray deals. Not to mention it's the only site I go for all blu-ray reviews. They have great writers. I'll give credit where credit is due.

But HDN has by far the better collector's forums and community (GBs, dedictated forums for release type: steelbook, CEs, digibooks)

I always check br.com for all my blu-ray purchases/deals. But I come here because I also have the collector's itch that needs to be scratched

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

(unless im mistaken)

He's based in Canada

Group Buy > Tells Blufans > Blufans sends steels to Hubs > Hub splits custom costs and sends steels to Ninjas

Thanks for clarifying. So where does Kevin reside? in the US? So he receives everything from the hub (based in China?) but in his case he received fewer items from the hub than anticipated and then why does Kevin want compensation from the hub or HDN? Sorry, but just trying to understand the entire thing here...

 

[steel888]

Thanks for clarifying. So where does Kevin reside? in the US? So he receives everything from the hub (based in China?) but in his case he received fewer items from the hub than anticipated and then why does Kevin want compensation from the hub or HDN? Sorry, but just trying to understand the entire thing here...

(unless im mistaken)

He's based in Canada

Group Buy > Tells Blufans > Blufans sends steels to Hubs > Hub splits custom costs and sends steels to Ninjas

2) Kevin stated that there were more steels sent to the hub than sent to the members, and that the hub was with holding these items, or essentially had stolen these items.

China -> hub -> members here

Items sent from Kevin are usually remainders, returns and the like. Hubs get direct shipments from China, in larger quantities at a time.

3) Kevin requested the amount in total for these missing steels be paid by HDN or the hub.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but being that I'm rather green to this community, I'm still confused as to who the "hub" is supposed to represent.

In some prior posts, the term is used for the people such as Kevin, David, etc. who coordinate the GB's on here. Yet, in other posts--to clarify the facts--it sounds as though there's another "hub" entity outside of the GB hub.

Can anyone enlighten me as to who/what this other hub is (i.e. someone else within HDN, a third-party distributor/liaison [contractual or not] with Bluefans, etc)?

 

[digitalbabe]

Hey Steel-'Hubs' are the members at HDN who are in Europe, the UK, USA, etc, who mail the Steels once they arrive their in bulk, from Blufans. Kevin coordinates shipping to those hubs. Example of hub-hubmuswell, masterblaster, etc in Group Buy forum, with 'hub' in their Group Buy thread.

 

[Jericho]

(unless im mistaken)

He's based in Canada

Group Buy > Tells Blufans > Blufans sends steels to Hubs > Hub splits custom costs and sends steels to Ninjas

This is my understanding too. Kevin is basuically an intermediary. He takes orders and tells BluFans what to send. But he does not physically handle the Steelbooks sent to the Hub (although he does ship some direct that he gets)

The basic idea is China sent some boxes to the Hub. It was Kevin's belief the Hub got more Steelbooks then needed (presumably if there was a shortage, it would have been obvious as someone would not get their order). The Hub disagreed. The basic disagreement is factual - how many Steelbooks arrived at the Hub? Since there's no real packing slips or accurate custom slips, there's no firm record of it. But China is saying it sent x number and the hub only got a lower number (whatever $1000 worth of Steels would be). The presumption is one of three things happened:

(1) the hub took the extra Steelbooks and pocketed them for personal use; or
(2) the records of what was sent was wrong; or
(3) some of the Steelbooks got lost/misplaced in the mail and never arrived at the hub.

And since there appears to be little evidence, it's basically one person's word against another and guessing which one happened.

I presume Kevin has to pay Blufans for the shipments, so someone's having to foot the bill for the unaccounted for Steelbooks.

 

[blu-steel]

So whats the purpose of the HDN fee? IMO it should pay for stuff like this.

 

[hayemaker]

You don't need a massive box for 20 steelbooks.

True, $1000 sounds like a lot of steelbooks but it really isn't with Blufans. 20 max