Gauging Interest for HDN Group Buys

[samdavies]

Pole to gauge possible Interest in HDN Group Buys for Manta Lab and/or WeET, hosted by myself, if @Wreck is amenable.

I am UK based, but the GBs would be open to HDN members worldwide, as they were with my Astro Creations Annihilation GB. TBD whether shipping would be retailer direct, or via a hub.

My preference would be for international orders at least to be shipped direct, if the retailers are willing. If not, I do potentially have hub contacts in CN/SK and EU, which may be an option for non-UK orders (also TBD, will need to discuss with them).

No guarantees or promises. This is purely to gauge interest so that I know if an allocation would be a worthwhile endeavour.

Thanks

 

[Lee0308]

And look at this blu fans discless prices £190 give me a break man. Don’t understand why people defend strangers they’ve never met and only know via online. He did a simlair ridiculous price with the Astro release until many complained (including me) then suddenly the price came crashing down

 

[samdavies]

£45 more for a one click is a rip off don’t care what anyone says. Those sort of prices are criminal I’d rather miss out than pay that. His Weet pricing doesn’t go up that much direct so why does the manta prices it’s because they’re popular, I’m not having the usual excuses they don’t add up

No offence here, I'm sure you're nice enough chap, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I quite literally worked through an example of his Kill Bill OC GB vs my Annihilation OC GB earlier today, and they were net the same if you didn't have customs to account for. His was £43.50 more than manta direct, BUT he'll get hit with a £26 VAT charge for that OC, so it's only actually £17.50 more than direct, which is less than 10%. I didn't have VAT to account for as a UK host, with a UK retailer, and I didn't hear a peep about the residual of my pricing for that release being a rip off.

 

[Lee0308]

No offence here, I'm sure you're nice enough chap, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I quite literally worked through an example of his Kill Bill OC GB vs my Annihilation OC GB earlier today, and they were net the same if you didn't have customs to account for. His was £43.50 more than manta direct, BUT he'll get hit with a £26 VAT charge for that OC, so it's only actually £17.50 more than direct, which is less than 10%. I didn't have VAT to account for as a UK host, with a UK retailer, and I didn't hear a peep about the residual of my pricing for that release being a rip off.

Missing some vital points here. He dropped the price originally it was £180 odd I think for the Astro one click. Why was his iron man one click £190 then? I like how you’ve ignored that point

 

[TheWildEye]

£45 more for a one click is a rip off don’t care what anyone says. Those sort of prices are criminal I’d rather miss out than pay that. His Weet pricing doesn’t go up that much direct so why does the manta prices it’s because they’re popular, I’m not having the usual excuses they don’t add up

Missing some vital points here. He dropped the price originally it was £180 odd I think for the Astro one click. Why was his iron man one click £190 then? I like how you’ve ignored that point

Dude, have you ever bought a OC direct shipped internationally via customs to your location from Collectong/Mantas website?
What were your total costs in UK £ or US $.
Then we can compare fairly...right?

Also. Astro is a UK based brand & seller. Manta is HK international brand and seller. Theres a huge difference already in shipping costs or lack of if you're a UK based buyer.

 

[Lee0308]

Dude, have you ever bought a OC direct shipped from Collectong/Manta?
What were your total costs in UK £ or US $.
Then we can compare fairly...right? Think that's fair then.

No I’ve never bought one, what even is a one click? Come on dude, don’t question my intelligence. Of course I’ve bought direct lol maybe 40+ orders over the years. This whole “you don’t know what you are talking” chat is amusing. Price is usually £175 or lower direct. Compared to £220 GB. That’s a big increase. The iron man 1 blu fans was £140 via hi def his is £190 ( i know it’s gone up slightly recently but he took payment for that release months ago when it was lower) that’s another £50ish uptick.

 

[Lee0308]

Dude, have you ever bought a OC direct shipped internationally via customs to your location from Collectong/Mantas website?
What were your total costs in UK £ or US $.
Then we can compare fairly...right?

Also. Astro is a UK based brand & seller. Manta is HK international brand and seller. Theres a huge difference already in shipping costs or lack of if you're a UK based buyer.

Sorry I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m aware Astro is uk based that wasn’t my concern. I was stating how the price of that GB originally was close to £180 then after a few complaints he lowered the price to £155 I think. My point is the original price, clearly hiking it hoping no one notices. Look I have no issues with the guy I just call stuff out I think needs calling out. I’m all for hosts pocketing some sort of profit from these GBs they’re doing all the work but I think the uptick in this instance is to much.

 

[TheWildEye]

No I’ve never bought one, what even is a one click? Come on dude, don’t question my intelligence. Of course I’ve bought direct lol maybe 40+ orders over the years. This whole “you don’t know what you are talking” chat is amusing. Price is usually £175 or lower direct. Compared to £220 GB. That’s a big increase. The iron man 1 blu fans was £140 via hi def his is £190 ( i know it’s gone up slightly recently but he took payment for that release months ago when it was lower) that’s another £50ish uptick.

Who said you don't know what you're talking about? I didn't say that. I only asked what your costs were. Honestly, everyone is so touchy these days. I'm not defending anyone. I've only ever bought a GB twice and only recently. Everything else has been direct.or ebay. I'm just trying to establish data to compare from what you said and Sam. It's interesting and probably good info to know all round.

 

[Flloydo]

His was £43.50 more than manta direct, BUT he'll get hit with a £26 VAT charge for that OC, so it's only actually £17.50 more than direct,

That’s crazy mate. Why anyone wants to pay those extra hikes before a pre order is beyond me. Another reason why GBs shouldn’t exist when you can order direct. Just adding more cost on to the buyer, especially in times like now where everything else in life costs a joke amount. And I bet most those people who use a GB like that where it’s essentially a pointless middle man can 100% order on the day but panic. Fukin scrap GBs all together for anyone who does not have a direct website. it’s getting ridiculous now. That’s my stance.

What’s annoying is if Manta and/ or weet decide to agree to having GBs here again then I guarantee you these numbers are taken from what would usually be sold through the website on pre order day. They won’t make the other GBs have more balanced numbers and take from them to even it out. Less people will come out of pre order with nothing which is completely out of order. That’s my main issue I think is that and again I’ve said this countless times, there should only be a certain amount of stock to GBs and that amount should be no where near the amount sold on pre order day but I just can’t see that being the case because with big titles GBs go crazy and all of a sudden they have 2,3x more stock that they usually would. So really the retailers don’t care and it’s most likely completely pointless having these conversations anyway

Unless you can guarantee from Manta that these numbers aren’t taken from website sales and really all GBs are more balanced then nothing changes with my opinion on this. Not that my opinion changing makes any difference anyway judging by the voting lol

 

[hatredhorror]

i sure as hell wouldnt join a gb with hub shipping that adds custom charges from HK to UK and then another 20GBP shipping + another custom charge from UK to Europe lol

 

[tha_lunatic]

manta lab ships directly to the gb joiners, no extra costs

 

[Lutzo]

Why are there 5 pages of comments when this is just a yes/no poll?

Ok, let me add a comment too then

I'm 100% selfish and want rare Manta and (less so) WeEt OneClicks. There seems to be no way for me to buy directly from Collectong anymore (I'm there, I'm logged in, I'm fast, my Internet is super fast, but I always end up in that PayPal queue now). If I can avoid that and pay more or even much more for a GB here - bring it on. The respective effort needs rewarding and I'll gladly pay for the help and stress relief. If that means even less copies direct - so be it, since I believe that it s almost impossible for non-bots to purchase these up anyway.

Getting back to HDN GroupBuys - they should only be open to longterm and highly commited members who really really want the Items of course

 

[samdavies]

Missing some vital points here. He dropped the price originally it was £180 odd I think for the Astro one click. Why was his iron man one click £190 then? I like how you’ve ignored that point

Re-read what I said. I'm not talking about his GB for Annihilation. I'm talking about MY GB here, for Annihilation. I'm using it as a like for like comparison to gauge fairness.

The GB "premium" charge over a direct order is the same with his GB last week for Manta KB OC as it was for my Annihilation GB OC. £17.50, and nobody bashed me for rip-off prices.

It isn’t £45 (£43.50 to be precise) as £26 of that is 20% VAT on the $176 item price that a host will be charged by UK customs. I know you're unlikely to get hit with VAT ordering direct as an individual, but that's irrelevant to the point as it isn't cash the host benefits from.

That's the reality of the situation, all there is to it. Given the choice, I would opt for Manta to ship all GB orders direct, so there's none of this BS aimed at me and everyone has equal risk/reward with customs. No clue if they're amenable to that for UK buyers, and if they are, why mark opts to act as a hub. WeET do not ship directly for UK GB orders, I know that much. So there's no choice there.

 

[samdavies]

That’s crazy mate. Why anyone wants to pay those extra hikes before a pre order is beyond me. Another reason why GBs shouldn’t exist when you can order direct. Just adding more cost on to the buyer, especially in times like now where everything else in life costs a joke amount. And I bet most those people who use a GB like that where it’s essentially a pointless middle man can 100% order on the day but panic. Fukin scrap GBs all together for anyone who does not have a direct website. it’s getting ridiculous now. That’s my stance.

What’s annoying is if Manta and/ or weet decide to agree to having GBs here again then I guarantee you these numbers are taken from what would usually be sold through the website on pre order day. They won’t make the other GBs have more balanced numbers and take from them to even it out. Less people will come out of pre order with nothing which is completely out of order. That’s my main issue I think is that and again I’ve said this countless times, there should only be a certain amount of stock to GBs and that amount should be no where near the amount sold on pre order day but I just can’t see that being the case because with big titles GBs go crazy and all of a sudden they have 2,3x more stock that they usually would. So really the retailers don’t care and it’s most likely completely pointless having these conversations anyway

Unless you can guarantee from Manta that these numbers aren’t taken from website sales and really all GBs are more balanced then nothing changes with my opinion on this. Not that my opinion changing makes any difference anyway judging by the voting lol

I know mate, it's a hefty markup from buying direct, which is why I rarely do it myself tbh. It is what it is though, and those are the costs involved. It's up to buyers if they want to do it or not. It works for some, evidently, but there are plenty who abstain, and that's fine too.

 

[sbarker]

Missing some vital points here. He dropped the price originally it was £180 odd I think for the Astro one click. Why was his iron man one click £190 then? I like how you’ve ignored that point

With the numbers quoted I can only see it being worthwhile to someone who wants the guarantee of supply for themselves as well because from a business perspective these numbers sounds like a good way to lose money.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you object to any additional pricing which is just an argument against GB hosts entirely no?

 

[Lee0308]

With the numbers quoted I can only see it being worthwhile to someone who wants the guarantee of supply for themselves as well because from a business perspective these numbers sounds like a good way to lose money.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you object to any additional pricing which is just an argument against GB hosts entirely no?

Not really a yes or no answer tbh. If Sam is correct on saying it’s £17.50 profit per one click (I’m sure you get discounts on bulk buys manta used to advertise on their old website as such) if he sells 50 one clicks that’s £875. I think that’s wild lol not including slips either for a couple of days work talking over a grand maybe per GB but of course not every GB is popular and I’m not sure if you have set allocations for every new title. I’ve taken part in GBs but I personally think if there is a website that functions properly to order from direct they shouldn’t exist tbh but that will never happen as it’s easier for the seller to ship a load to one person I get that so I do take part in some but I’d rather not. I still don’t understand how Weet direct prices and GB are very similar either when there is a bigger difference on blu fans and manta lab. Surely VAT applies to those shipments as well

 

[sbarker]

Not really a yes or no answer tbh. If Sam is correct on saying it’s £17.50 profit per one click (I’m sure you get discounts on bulk buys manta used to advertise on their old website as such) if he sells 50 one clicks that’s £875. I think that’s wild lol not including slips either for a couple of days work talking over a grand maybe per GB. I’ve taken part in GBs but I personally think if there is a website that functions properly to order from direct they shouldn’t exist tbh but that will never happen as it’s easier for the seller to ship a load to one person I get that so I do take part in some but I’d rather not.

Thanks for that, I was recently mulling over contacting Manta for a small allocation (something like 10 OC's, 10 of each slip etc) but I came to the conclusion it's probably not worth it, even with an order that small it's approaching three grand every month, once you slap on VAT and if there's a couple of stinkers like Joker 2 it could be rough moving even such small numbers. I like the idea of being someone others could rely on for such things but you'd also really need to sell direct, fees for a business on eBay add on a good 12-14%. This is before factoring in inevitable problems that crop up, so that's sounds like a headache when all I really want is to get out of the queue prison.

Sure if you scale up it'll work, I assume another site is doing well enough off the high volume of orders they're handling but I don't think that applies at small scale, certainly there are better ways to make money even if that's no real comfort to anyone here looking at some sellers gouging the hell out of certain releases.

So what's the answer here? Premium labels are incentivised to do GBs, I don't see them going away and if they're not going away I'd lean towards having more smaller GBs being the least worst outcome.

 

[Lenny Nero]

Wow, I did not read all 5 pages, maybe later.
I voted Yes, because of MantaLab primarily.
WeET is often easier to get, and they ship directly to my country, basically one of the last countries and companies to ship to godforsaken Russia.

There's some quarrel about prices. Yes the GB prices increased over the years. Used to be about $10 more per slip. Now I overpay $80 for a One-Click, based on a recent example of Kill Bill from Manta.

Still, it's better to have the option of a GB for some predictably higher demand titles.

Oh, and I agree with @TheWildEye that these companies should increase the printrun.
At least 5,000, 9-10k for highly popular ones, from the 3000 it is at now.

 

[TheWildEye]

Wow, I did not read all 5 pages, maybe later.
I voted Yes, because of MantaLab primarily.
WeET is often easier to get, and they ship directly to my country, basically one of the last countries and companies to ship to godforsaken Russia.

There's some quarrel about prices. Yes the GB prices increased over the years. Used to be about $10 more per slip. Now I overpay $80 for a One-Click, based on a recent example of Kill Bill from Manta.

Still, it's better to have the option of a GB for some predictably higher demand titles.

Oh, and I agree with @TheWildEye that these companies should increase the printrun.
At least 5,000, 9-10k for highly popular ones, from the 3000 it is at now.

10k for the popular ones!?!

I meant a minor 10-15% increase, small enough to retain it as a "traditional" limited collectable but large enough to accommodate the growing market for physical media and the need within the community. Interest for premiums are clearly continuing to peak each year if not each month.

So you're thinking 10k for something like Manta Pulp Fiction? @Lenny Nero That would be a super popular title I guess.
I dunno, maybe you're right. It'd still sell out faster than a fart in the wind, but when is the number too high that it stops being what that brand has been well known for and why it's so well sort after?
Would it lose status?
Would the quality drop due to the larger production? Would that p*ss off the existing user base?
Lots of questions really on such a large increase.

@sbarker and @Flloydo hit the nail dead centre though. GBs do need their own separate allocation of stock outside of direct orders. It just makes the most sense then. I can't fathom why they don't/didn't instigate that all along. Practical sense from a business and logistical standpoint

Or maybe they do a pre order phase. Timed. Get in your early doors order then shutdown to lock in numbers. Then still re open on the "traditional" order day for everyone who missed the timed order.

Who knows. This current purchase on the day system just seems outdated and unstable to me now. It's no where near robust enough to handle the interest.

I'm sure all of this same stuff has been thrashed out in threads before. Probably just repeating age old discussions

 

[Lenny Nero]

I dunno, maybe you're right. It'd still sell out faster than a fart in the wind, but when is the number too high that it stops being what that brand has been well known for and why it's so well sort after?

I personally don't ever buy any of them because they're limited, but because I like the art, or/and printed materials, like cards and booklets, which I love ever since the first DVD editions in the 90s.

I'm an 'OG' collector, who remembers when you could take a week to decide wether to buy an LE, or buy another version or copy, after receiving it.
Also when studio LEs were 30,000 up to over 200,000 copies, so 9k would still feel very limited.

Would that p*ss off the existing user base?

It would piss off the poser idiots, which is fine.

 

[TheWildEye]

I personally don't ever buy any of them because they're limited, but because I like the art, or/and printed materials, like cards and booklets, which I love ever since the first DVD editions in the 90s.


It would piss off the poser idiots, which is fine.

You and your art cards mate