What will become the next Holy Grail Steelbook

[Bluprint]

This can be impossible to predict but with small print runs and many major Steelbook giants like Play & HMV going down maybe you're holding the next Holy Grail right now. So which one of the recent Steelbooks do you predict being the next Holy Grail's?

 

[zoneism]

Nothing against LGB, but rarity is all that its got going for it. While the superhero ones have massive blockbusters behind them, and an infinitely broader fan base.

I don't disagree with your way of thinking stevo, but that rarity on LGB counts for more than just rarity alone. None of us lose any sleep at night in the fear of a re-print of LGB. That means the copies out there are only going to go down in numbers as one by one they get lost or damaged.

Those massive blockbusters, however, have re-print written all over them and it always gets very tense each time we see another IM anounced (for example). Go back a year to Play IM being announced and the uproar that came with it. Because it's a concern each day that a naive decision by a studio could bring certain titles crashing down in grail status.

We breathed a big sigh of relief after we saw Play IM had different art. And we were lucky again recently on Watchmen FS, if only for the matte factor. Next up is Play/FS Star Trek. Most will stand the test of time and for now those blockbuster titles are more likely grails. But they are more 'fragile' in their status too imo

 

[stevo]

Because I believe the glossy version is much more desirable than the matte finish. Glossy really works on that steel and feel quality is great which gives it a sense of strong metal steel as opposed to a cheap feel.

I don't think the FS will dip to silly low prices, it certainly won't go up, but I reckon it will hold steady, and for your sake as well because you have like ten

Well lets see if I am proved wrong

But according to both our views, the stickers on the FS version would differentiate it from this re release correct? So what should I have to worry about? In all fairness, I don't think its the gloss that differentiates these 2. The stickers are much more important. You can't tell gloss on an ebay auction, or when sellers use a generic pic.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

I don't disagree with your way of thinking stevo, but that rarity on LGB counts for more than just rarity alone. None of us lose any sleep at night in the fear of a re-print of LGB. That means the copies out there are only going to go down in numbers as one by one they get lost or damaged.

Those massive blockbusters, however, have re-print written all over them and it always gets very tense each time we see another IM anounced (for example). Go back a year to Play IM being announced and the uproar that came with it. Because it's a concern each day that a naive decision by a studio could bring certain titles crashing down in grail status.

We breathed a big sigh of relief after we saw Play IM had different art. And we were lucky again recently on Watchmen FS, if only for the matte factor. Next up is Play/FS Star Trek. Most will stand the test of time and for now those blockbuster titles are more likely grails. But they are more 'fragile' in their status too imo

Thats a real good way of putting it bud. I can definitely buy that explanation, point taken.

 

[chanfm]

I agree that the market has decided (for whatever reason) that stickers and slips do make a big difference to values. I watched 2 auctions with some interest last night.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Terminator-...BnBah0Be%2F0sTWG7vVQU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Terminator-...BnBah0Be%2F0sTWG7vVQU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


It is exactly the same steel, from the same country, sold by the same seller, sold at approximately the same time but one sold for about 3.5 times the other. The only difference is the stickers - and those stickers only indicate point of retail origin.

My logical self wondered what sort of crazy this is. On the other hand, if the market decides this is how steels are to be valued, I will just have to follow its lead.

I have also been following the reprints of Star Trek, Watchmen, The Town, etc. Although I am dead against reprints or rereleases, they no longer irritate me. As long as there is a way of distinguishing each print or release, I think that the rarer and more sought after steel will still be of greater value. Watchmen FS has its stickers - definitely no worries there Studios seem to have made up their minds that each re release or re print will not be an EXACT duplicate of the last. That is good - I can keep buying steels with that comfort.

As for T2 Kor, it seems to me that kimchi is making an effort to make it a true exclusive. Even if the steel is released somewhere else, my guess is that the kimchi slipcover will not be. It may even have a kimchi sticker. I don't think it will be a grail soon but I would say that it has a reasonable chance of being a grail after a few years.

 

[Lutzo]

Grail or not

I'm always fascinated by these discussions...

How about this for a definition - a steelbook only REALLY is/becomes a holy grail, if it is sought after unsealed as well! IM FS, John Rambo, IB FS, LGB - all still pretty expensive when open/mint - but thinks like "The Thing Japan" or Thor JP or CA TW or whatever are practically worthless once its no longer sealed, right? Somebody could wave 10 open copies of the Thing play at you and could say that these are Japanese copies and he just happened to open all of them to watch and threw away the plastic and the slip...

Even though it is obvious that these Asian "sticker and slips" items are very sought after by certain, rich collector's, they don't really have the mass appeal that IM FS and IB FS have - these German MM editions never had grail status anyway, because there are just too many copies of Death Race, 1408 and Hellboy 2 around and these movies also are probably not as good/interesting/marketable as IM and IB for example, so the overall package doesn't really work.

Either way, I'm done collecting steelbooks and I really don't regret that I am... it became really frustrating and way too expensive

 

[sunnyx]

Lutzo,

Referring to stickers and slips opened and becoming worthless, that is partially true. But I don't believe every steel to be worthless if opened.

Evil's ebay auction for Thor Korea open mint went for a good price I recall.

Stickers and slip steels you will find very few collectors will open these as there is little to be gained in doing so. As they are worldwide releases the steel is identicle. Most would keep the sticker slip steel sealed, and open a cheap version.

Generally speaking, I do agree to a certain extent, 'open them they become worthless'.

I wonder what TDK FNAC is really worth after you open the steel? Could be the difference of £50 - £100 vs £500 - £600....

 

[snooloui]

Desire = demand = rare = more money to acquire = expensive steelbook?

If that is your interpretation then Iron Man Play.com, CA UK and Thor UK be classed as grails in your definition?

Not slating your opinion, but to clarify the difference between value vs grail

Many Asian Steelbooks are only expensive because very few copies exist, not because there is huge demand. Most collectors couldn't care less about slipcovers and stickers (though of course this is only down to personal preference, there is no right or wrong). Value is not the only factor in whether a Steelbook is a grail or not in my opinion.

 

[sunnyx]

Many Asian Steelbooks are only expensive because very few copies exist, not because there is huge demand. Most collectors couldn't care less about slipcovers and stickers (though of course this is only down to personal preference, there is no right or wrong). Value is not the only factor in whether a Steelbook is a grail or not in my opinion.

Then what do you class as a grail that is not expensive?

 

[snooloui]

Then what do you class as a grail that is not expensive?

Nothing. All of the grails are expensive.

 

[stevo]

stevo, you seem to be confusing grail with high value Steelbook. In my opinion a grail is a Steelbook that nearly every collector desires, not the same Steelbook every other country got but with a bit of paper with foreign writing on. Not every expensive Steelbook is a grail.

I guess the best response to that is money talks, everything else walks. A grail implies something that is highly sought after, but takes a long time to hunt down, and almost impossible to get. Refer to the King Arthur stories from with this term comes from. How can something be a "grail" if anyone can get it on ebay for $20-$30? So money and scarcity makes a grail, but mostly money. If a steel cost $1,000, that would eliminate 99% of the people wanting it, but can't afford it. Thus it becomes a grail, virtually unattainable, except for the few Sir Galahads out there.

As for the opened or sealed issue, it all goes back to the stickers and slips I was talking about. If a steel is opened, and the stickers and slip were thrown away, the critical identifiers are lost. Thus a Thor JP becomes a faceless generic Thor. If this weren't so, I'd open my copy of Thor GR, and claim that it was Thor JP, and sell it for many times what its actually worth. A lot of people seem to have an issue with stickers and slips making such a big difference, including me. I was probably their biggest critic. But these little things makes a huge difference as this hobby matures. I see that now, refer to Chans 2 auction links above if you have any doubts whatsoever.

 

[chanfm]

Guys. Just as an aside, an opened Thor Jpn has distinctive discs with Japanese writing on it. I hv pics showing this. This does not make a difference to the opinions expressed here. I merely mentioned it because a few people had also thought that an opened Thor Jpn could b mistaken for some other Thor.

I suppose an opened T4 Virgin may b mistaken for a T4 FNAC.

 

[snooloui]

I guess the best response to that is money talks, everything else walks. A grail implies something that is highly sought after, but takes a long time to hunt down, and almost impossible to get. Refer to the King Arthur stories from with this term comes from. How can something be a "grail" if anyone can get it on ebay for $20-$30? So money and scarcity makes a grail, but mostly money. If a steel cost $1,000, that would eliminate 99% of the people wanting it, but can't afford it. Thus it becomes a grail, virtually unattainable, except for the few Sir Galahads out there.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying there are Steelbooks out there worth £20 that are grails, i'm saying that a high selling price doesn't automatically make a Steelbook a grail. In my opinion, a grail is a Steelbook that nearly every collector desires to have in their collection. That's why I think something like 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit?' will be a future grail (assuming it doesn't get re-released en masse), rather than one of the many versions of The Hobbit.

 

[stevo]

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying there are Steelbooks out there worth £20 that are grails, i'm saying that a high selling price doesn't automatically make a Steelbook a grail. In my opinion, a grail is a Steelbook that nearly every collector desires to have in their collection. That's why I think something like 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit?' will be a future grail (assuming it doesn't get re-released en masse), rather than one of the many versions of The Hobbit.

So from what I gather, popularity alone makes for a grail? In your opinion, in the future, I'm gonna have great difficulties locating WFRR on ebay, and it would cost me $100's if not $1,000's of dollars? Have you read any of the King Arthur legends (you are English). It took Sir Galahad many years and great difficulties locating the grail. He didn't just go to the local fisherman's market, and find a few dozen of them for sale, right next to the tuna fish and lobsters my friend.

 

[snooloui]

So from what I gather, popularity alone makes for a grail? In your opinion, in the future, I'm gonna have great difficulties locating WFRR on ebay, and it would cost me $100's if not $1,000's of dollars? Have you read any of the King Arthur legends (you are English). It took Sir Galahad many years and great difficulties locating the grail. He didn't just go to the local fisherman's market, and find a few dozen of them for sale, right next to the tuna fish and lobsters my friend.

No, popularity and rarity. As you incorrectly summed up my point, I could equally say that you think rarity/value alone makes a grail. As for your point about WFRR, yes i'm sure it will become hard to find in the coming months/years.

As i've said a thousand times now - high value does not make a Steelbook a grail in my opinion. If you don't agree, then that's fine, let's not discuss this further as it is clear we are not going to agree.

One last point, do you now consider Jack Reacher (Entertainment Store exclusive) as a grail? It now seems to fit your value/rarity criteria.

 

[sunnyx]

As i've said a thousand times now - high value does not make a Steelbook a grail in my opinion. If you don't agree, then that's fine, let's not discuss this further as it is clear we are not going to agree.

Well opinions are always welcomed, that's what this forum is for but I disagree. Myself and others are a little confused with your statement which is why I wanted some clarification. Your views IMO to a definition of a grail is a subjective preference when you mention 'popularity' and not all about 'value'.

Yes popularity does count but it also needs to be highly sought which reflects the high on going prices and therefore value - ££$$$$

Supply vs Demand, back to basics. One of my favourite steels is Terminator 4 Iron Pack. Very popular but I won't class that as a grail yet as it has not passed the 'threshold' in terms of value. If I follow your definition of a grail it has always been a grail when it was $100. But that is a subjective preference of steel.

Yes you can argue some steels with a silly slip can fetch high prices - not all of them are grails because only a few would spend X amount on certain ones. Yes I agree to that but as you are aware a lot of steels with slips are already on the grail list (of course you don't have to agree).

Generally speaking my views of grail it has to be highly sought and expensive. Not necessary rare. Iron Man Future Shop isn't that rare. Just many people are holding onto them. I still class it as a grail because it is popular and expensive.

If a grail wasn't expensive then it would be easy to acquire and everyone will have this.

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

One last point, do you now consider Jack Reacher (Entertainment Store exclusive) as a grail? It now seems to fit your value/rarity criteria.

To answer this point, at this time no. IMO for a steel to be classed as a grail, it takes time. Like all steels released there is always a surge of 'hype' - one of the key factors that influences the value from the start. Most times I seen so many times the hype dies and the steel slowly fades and is forgotten about back on shelves getting dusty and everyones trade thread to either get rid of, or sell on ebay for less than what we paid at times

All the most common steels that most members classed as 'grails' have been there for a while now. So give it time and if it is consistent, selling well for a lot more money, I guess we can call that a grail. We will see.

For me, I would have no interest paying silly money for it lol - but that is a 'subjective' opinion.

 

[snooloui]

I totally agree that a Steelbook has to be very popular and expensive to be a grail. My point is that not every expensive Steelbook is a grail which i'm sure you agree with. I would consider every version of Thor a grail because it is pretty expensive and very popular. I'm sure when Thor 2 is released (and if it doesn't get a re-release every which is very possible) it will be commanding a price much higher than it is now. On the other hand I wouldn't consider any version of The Hobbit a grail (which I was originally responding from stevo's post), simply because it is a must own for only a handful of collectors, not the majority.

 

[sunnyx]

I totally agree that a Steelbook has to be very popular and expensive to be a grail. My point is that not every expensive Steelbook is a grail which i'm sure you agree with.

I do agree with this point.

Okay I'm gonna be blunt, IMO steels like The Thing JP, Terminator 4 Virgin, Hugo Korea, Avatar JP, Ted Korea and all the other limited Asian releases with a silly slip (no offence to anyone who has these and apologies in advance) that have sold for silly prices I do not class as a grail...you can argue I am being biased if you like, I'll take it like a man

The reason I do not class these as grails, even if they were sold for a high price which I know they have, is because of the lack of general interest and appeal to a majority of collectors.

Steels like Gladiator TW, T2 2.0, Thor JP, Terminator 4 TW, CA TW, TDK FNAC, IM 2 JP - these are an example of steels with a silly sticker and slip that will fetch silly prices have a large appeal to collectors.

Steels like The Thing JP, T4 Virgin etc will appeal to a minority of collectors that will pay silly money. When it is a minority of people that want it, that influences my grading of a grail.

But what about Le Grande Bleu? Highly Sought, expensive, but not popular but still a grail? lol. Not all steels are the same and you have to judge them on it's own merits. For me, overall, the appeal is there to class LGB as a grail when compared to the likes of a steel such as T4 Virgin.

The definition of a grail can be a subjective definition to everyone.

To me it has to be highly sought, popular (but not always, LGB is an example), expensive, and rare (but not always, IM FS is an example).

 

[stevo]

No, popularity and rarity. As you incorrectly summed up my point, I could equally say that you think rarity/value alone makes a grail. As for your point about WFRR, yes i'm sure it will become hard to find in the coming months/years.

As i've said a thousand times now - high value does not make a Steelbook a grail in my opinion. If you don't agree, then that's fine, let's not discuss this further as it is clear we are not going to agree.

One last point, do you now consider Jack Reacher (Entertainment Store exclusive) as a grail? It now seems to fit your value/rarity criteria.

Like I said, I have a very narrow and concrete definition of what a grail is. And I use this definition of mine when deciding to spend 100's of dollars on a steel, or predicting what will become grail status in the future. To be grail, it has to consistently sell for $500+. As for Jack Reacher, I have no idea if it is a grail, that is not up to me to decide. It will go to the market, and the people will decide, with their hard earned money, what is worthy to be grail, and what is not. Odds are, Jack Reacher will not meet my extremely rigid and ultra conservative definition of what a grail is. By my definition, you can count the numbers of grails on your fingers, despite the fact that there are 1000's different steels worldwide.

Expensive, hard to find, extremely desirable are definitely key components. It just takes away from the definition of a grail, if Joe Smith from Walla Walla Washington can punch in a few keystrokes, and with a few mouse clicks, can easily acquire a so called grail. My grails don't appear on ebay much. But when they do, the winner of that auction would have had to slay a lot of dragons, and beat out alot of heavy hitters to acquire it.

 

[snooloui]

I do agree with this point.

Okay I'm gonna be blunt, IMO steels like The Thing JP, Terminator 4 Virgin, Hugo Korea, Avatar JP, Ted Korea and all the other limited Asian releases with a silly slip (no offence to anyone who has these) that have sold for silly prices I do not class as a grail...you can argue I am being biased if you like, I'll take it like a man

The reason I do not class these as grails, even if they were sold for a high price which I know they have, is because of the lack of general interest and appeal to a majority of collectors.

Steels like Gladiator TW, T2 2.0, Thor JP, Terminator 4 TW, CA TW, TDK FNAC, IM 2 JP - these are an example of steels with a silly sticker and slip that will fetch silly prices have a large appeal to collectors.

Steels like The Thing JP, T4 Virgin etc will appeal to a minority of collectors that will pay silly money.

The definition of a grail can be a subjective definition to everyone.

To me it has to be highly sought, popular, expensive, and rare (but not always, IM FS is an example).

This is the point I have been trying to make

 

[sunnyx]

This is the point I have been trying to make

You just needed me to explain it better for you : which is why I was a little confused by some of your replies.

 

[tristar6]

Whats about LoA Zeta 1/4 Slip??